Again, Marvel doesn't have to do anything except earn a profit. That's their only purpose. They are under no mandate whatsoever to be "fair and balanced." Again, they are not the government or a court of law. They're a publicly traded, for profit entertainment company as a division of Disney. They have to answer only to Bob Iger, the Disney board of directors, and the Disney shareholders.Timmyb52 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:41 amOf course Marvel has always been liberal...but it hasn't always made it their primary concern to push liberal philsophies down their readers throats. Marvel has always been diverse...but with modern day Marvel they are just too heavy handed about it.
Are comics a political soapbox? Is the intent of a comic company to push political messaging rather than characters and stories which will appeal to as many people as possible...despite their political leanings?
A company whose purpose is to generate maximum profit should not be so concerned with political messaging that may offend customers and potential future customers. Once a company has decided that putting political propaganda and messaging is more important than entertainment and profit generation they are only appealing to a consumer base that shares their own political views rather then the entertainment they produce...they effectively cut themselves off from maximum profit generation.
Marvel is a comic book company whose sole purpose should be the focus on generating interesting characters and good stories...not politics! This is not to say that comics cannot discuss political issues but it should present a fair and balanced presentation so that consumers of their product who may not agree with their heavy-handed political messaging aren't offended and stop buying their books.
Their purpose is to produce a product that everyone will want...not just a product liberals and far-leftists would want.
Marvel choosing to be a political party rather than a comic company are practicing in self-sabotage that will only lead to the loss of further profits and readership.
How many left leaning readers would drop Marvel if they started hitting them over the head with Right leaning and far-Right leaning messaging over and over again, month after month?
The only people who don't see anything wrong with Marvels Far-Left and Left leaning heavy and biased political messaging are those who share those same political beliefs.
It's OK for Marvel to be liberal...but its not OK that I should have to be bombarded by their liberal political messaging! And if Marvel has decided to be a company that wishes to be a political party rather than a comic book company then they also must be prepared to lose a lot of money...not just in the short-term but in the long term.
This is not about diversity at all,or representing minorities...it is about the left leaning political messaging itself that they put in the mouths of these characters that is biased and unbalanced...and it turns off people who don't like being overly preached too with wanna-be political correctness!
If Marvel wishes to continue with this foolishness...then more power to them! But don't think that Marvel will be able to stay # 1 when it has chosen to pander to a subset of their readership and fanbase while neglecting and ignoring a much larger fanbase they could have and retain by maintaining a balanced political landscape in their characters and books.
The majority of comic readers could care less about politics...they just want to be entertained with good stories and characters and don't want to have those characters preaching a biased political message.
You can have all the minorities represented...but do they all have to spout far left and left leaning political correctness? Why can't they just speak like normal people do in every day life? Why do all these characters have to constantly remind us of how special they are just because of their skin color or sexual orientation? We get it...and you know what? We don't care because we judge a person based on their character and not what skin color they are or what kind of sexual intercourse they prefer!
Moving the goalposts to make these concerns that many fans have against Marvel's current political messaging all about being against the characters skin color or sexual gender is disingenious and cheap. It seeks to demonize a person's character rather then to address the questions raised...in essence the person or persons who use such tactics can not defend their position and must resort to name calling in order to maintain and defend their unsound opinions and beliefs.
You say Marvel won't stay #1 - great. Let them reap the consequences. But I'll point out DC espouses similar values in terms of diversity and equality and it's doing just fine. I'm also fairly certain the Disney company as a whole has access to millions of dollars' worth of market research and they know their target consumer quite well.
If Marvel published something abhorrent to me, then I would stop buying it. In fact, I did exactly that with One More Day. I stopped buying Marvel Comics cold turkey, and I used to have a $75/week habit. Now I only buy a select few titles I wish to support. Renew Your Vows is the only Spider title I purchase.
So if you are truly offended: don't give them your money.
It sucks when you feel like you can no longer enjoy something you used to enjoy, but luckily we live in an era when there are more entertainment options now more than ever. There's fan fiction if you need stories about your favorite characters. You could even try writing your own fan fiction. There are back issues. There are films and TV shows. There are other comic book companies. There are books. The Spider-Man novels from the last decade or so are decent and in some cases, like the trilogy written by Adam-Troy Casto, quite excellent. You can find them used on Amazon.
Here's the real problem with Marvel, as I see it, and you've also hit on it:Big Al wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:42 pm
I feel in modern Marvel to a certain extent social/political issues have in certain instances comprmised storytelling quality. Case in point I think Marvel treats Riri Williams mere existence as justification for her to replace Iron Man and be regarded as a good character when there are numerous creative problems with her, mostly stemming from her age. On the flipside you have Miles who I really do feel is aggressively overrrated partially (but far from entirely) due to the representation he provides in spite of his massive creative problems as a character. And the irony for me being that I think he'd actually be a much BETTER character if they actually went further with the examination of his ethnicity as part of his identity.
I've wanted to see a scene where Miles webs up a mugger in alleyway and then questions the act because between him being a POC and his dad working within the legal system he knows all too well that the guy is going to experience multiple miscarriages of justice.
Or, being of immigrant descent myself, seeing a FAR more substantial exploration of his Puerto Rican heritage. Speaking for myself, though I don't feel I truely suffer due to it, I do feel like I live in a weird in between space between being English and being Cypriot because of where I live vs where my family (and thereby certain traditions I have been raised with) originate. Case in point, never have I met an English person who's relationship with their grandparents mirrors my own or my Greek friends because of how gransparents are regarded differently between our cultures.
So emphasising that with Miles (and in BETTER ways than his angry stereotype of a Grandmother) would've raised his esteem in my books
But you know when it comes to liberal POVs, whilst there is a lot I disagree with (I've come to view myself as centre left or moderate I guess), I think Marvel's biggest problem is more about presentation than anything.
The fact is that I think Marvel have over the past 10 years had a MASSIVE elitism problem. From Quesada to Slott to Brevoort, to Wacker and many others, I think a shitton of people within Marvel feel they are somehow 'better' than the fans and to an extent that bleeds into their politics meaning they feel a lot of the times morally superior too.
And consequently when they present certain liberal politics, especially stuff linked to identity politics, they come off as IMMENSLY obnoxious.
And it's that that pisses people off more than anything..
It's not the characters, or even the intent of the characters:
It's the creators.
When you have white middle aged upper middle class men writing a black/Hispanic teenager from a working class home: it's not going to be authentic. It's going to be heavy-handed, and it's going to err on the side of making the character of color into either a faultless saint or mouthpiece. And that's the opposite of characterization.
This is why Ms. Marvel is beloved by its readers, because G. Willow Wilson is telling a story near and dear to her, even if Wilson isn't of Pakistani descent. But she's knows what it is like to grow up female, and she's a member of the Muslim community.
This isn't to say people can't write characters of different backgrounds and ethnicities to themselves, but it takes research, sensitivity, a willingness to accept criticism and admit when you got it wrong. And that doesn't happen at Marvel.
So Timmy does have a point about the heavy-handedness, but I view it as a creative failure more than anything else.
I'm calling foul on this. First, she and Lance were undercover in a bondage club, and she was playacting to maintain her cover. Second, really, with everything that's coming out in the news, it's women controlling men that's the problem? RLLY?Or that moment in Mockingbird by Chelsea Cain where she literally says "All men should come with remotes" (which I'm sorry...wouldn't be funny if the statement was reversed to be about women).
This I agree, because it's OOC, and it's what men think women talk like. They don't. This is why Marvel needs more female writers and staffers, so they can learn what women talk like. But I digress.Or Titania being aggressively out of character in that issue of Jane Foster Thor's comic where (after Jane had beaten up her HUSBAND) she expressed solidarity with Jane over her being a woman stepping into a male hero's role and surrendered. a) Titania LOVES mayhem and fighting and always has so her surrendering really doesn't ring true at all b) Titania legitimately loves her husband Absorbing Man so her being that nice to Jane after she'd seen the man she loved who'd helped her through some serious shit in her life (like her phobia of Spider-Man) is also incredibly unlikely c) Titania's arch-foe is SHE-HULK! And she LOATHES her. Don't remember much female solidarity between those two. So no...Titantia would 100% never act that way in that situation. But because it was making the point Aaron waned to make he ignored her established characterization.