Marvel's Political Agenda

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by Spider-Padre » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:43 am

I'm a minister, and we have a saying about people who "see a demon behind every tree." True enough that Marvel has a good decade or so of antagonizing its own customers, which has to be one of the stupidest PR strategies I've ever seen. So after a while it's tempting to see everything they do as provocative. But don't see a demon behind every tree.

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by Phantom Roxas » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:01 am

Timmyb52 wrote:Phantom...although I believe that Marvel has an SJW agenda and wish to push their political ideological beliefs through their comics onto the fans in hopes of converting them I have no personal thoughts on Antos herself,.I know very little about her and have no idea if she is a SJW or not...I never made those claims .
You are associating my attempts at clearing up the confusion in regards to comments made on her twiiter account over the milkshake photo as if they are my own statements and beliefs when all I'm trying to get across is that the comments used by BC were largely taken out of context of a larger argument in order to create a false picture of victimization and women bashing.
So...what word should I use to accurately describe a SJW that would seem less offensive?
The claims and statements made by the posters in regard to the issue of Antos...her age and experience/lack of experience is their own...they are not mine!!! I have not yet made a full investigation into her background yet to make that kind of determination...but when I do I will let you know in the spirit of openess and honesty.
At this present time I do not agree with the statements made in regards to those claims made by the posters themselves as it pertains to Antos and her experience/non-experience.
There was no confusion over those comments. Bleeding Cool provided plenty of context for the tweets, you're claiming that the context was something entirely different in order to create your own false picture. You're doing exactly what you claim to be criticizing Bleeding Cool for doing.

That you're asking for a "word" (singular) to describe an SJW (Which, by the way, was only referred to in two of the tweets, yet you defend every tweet as if everyone was making that particular criticism) shows exactly the problem. It sounds like you're asking for another label, when I'm asking you to respond with a longer string of words. Describe the behavior, and what is objectionable about that. Don't leave it at "She acts like an SJW", which was never even a criticism that was made at the photo. You're putting words in their mouth. Instead of trying to clear up any "confusion", you can let those people speak for themselves. What does it mean to "act like an SJW"? If you can describe the behavior of an "SJW", then criticize the behavior, rather than just leaving it at "SJW = bad".
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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:05 am

Can't we all just agree that the comments made on the women were idiotic ? Also can we all agree as well that the reaction to a couple of tweets made by trolls was way over the top by Marvel and others and doesn't represent the intere anti-SJW movement ?

Also if we are going to complain about MakeMineMilkshake then how about this little jem that Jessica Jones (Official) twitter account posted :
Image
Is it fair for to critize it ? Because how would it be if it was the other way around ?

By the end of the day I don't think it's fair to gather all of the Anti-SJW movement to a couple of tweets made by trolls!

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by RDMacQ » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:38 am

MRstarkiller360 wrote:Can't we all just agree that the comments made on the women were idiotic ? Also can we all agree as well that the reaction to a couple of tweets made by trolls was way over the top by Marvel and others and doesn't represent the intere anti-SJW movement ?
No, we can't. Because I really haven't seen anything to indicate that this wasn't representative of the whole Anti-SJW movement.

The people "Complaining" about the milkshake picture used the exact same leaps of logic that I've seen other "Anti-SJW" posters make. That this image somehow indicates a larger, more insidious agenda by Marvel. That the very presence of women indicate that Marvel is governed more by political correctness than a need to do a good job. That the presence of women alone is enough "Proof" that shows that Marvel cares more about pushing an agenda than they do producing quality stories. And the very fact that these women are women, some of whom are minorities, indicates that they got the job solely for the sake of diversity and nothing more.

And I've seen those types of accusations levied all the time. It's just that now they were levied at the most innocent and innocuous thing you can imagine. Which showed that this was not a group of people upset about Marvel's "Agenda," but were using that in order to push for their own selfish agenda.

Because if these people were trolls, then why aren't the other "Anti-SJW" posters condemning them? Why aren't they outright leaving them out to dry? Why aren't they coming out and saying "They do not represent us. They do not represent our views. These people are vile and disgusting and I will not stand for their behavior."

Instead, at most, we get people trying to say that what they were saying wasn't really "All that bad," and stuff like this happens all the time, and Marvel said some bad things too, and it was really just everyone being a little salty so let's all pretend it never happened OK? Both sides were at fault. Oh, but Marvel was more at fault than us, so they are still bad.

No, sorry. Doesn't work like that. If this was just the action of a few trolls, then they should be condemned, not excused and given a slap on the wrist. This isn't about "Both sides" doing wrong. This is about the "Anti-SJW" "movement" attacking something that was the most inoffensive thing you can imagine, and showing their movement to be what it was. And until I see otherwise, I've got no reason to accept the notion that these posters were not representative of the whole.
Also if we are going to complain about MakeMineMilkshake then how about this little jem that Jessica Jones (Official) twitter account posted :
Image
Is it fair for to critize it ? Because how would it be if it was the other way around ?

By the end of the day I don't think it's fair to gather all of the Anti-SJW movement to a couple of tweets made by trolls!
No, we can't. Because, quite frankly, things are not the same between Men and Women.

Woman do have it a lot different than men. Especially white males. Speaking as a white male, I don't have to worry about people making comments about my attractiveness, or whether or not they'd like to have sex with me, or making sexually inappropriate comments. And I'm not just speaking about online. I'm talking about in my everyday life.

I knew a woman who had one of my coworkers just show up at her house one day, out of nowhere, and basically expect sex with her. And she never told this guy where she lived, which added to the creepiness. Another time, I heard two women talking on the bus about how a guy kept coming into the one woman's place of work and hitting on her, making very sexually explicit comments towards her, even after she continually asked him to stop. And, hey, let's not forget the time that students at a Yale fraternity chanted "No means Yes, Yes means Anal."

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/ne ... 92845.html

So, no, things are not equal between men and women. Not by a long shot. A white male can be cast in a particular role, but if a woman is cast in a lead role, all of a sudden there is a massive controversy. Gal Gadot was judged more on her appearance than her acting ability, something that never was a major consideration for stars such as Chris Hemsworth or Chris Evans, or even Chris Pratt. The casting of a female Doctor Who was a major controversy, despite the fact that the series stars a shapeshifting alien from another planet, and such changes have been established before. Women are subjected to insane double standards that men do not even have to consider. We don't ask men to stay in shape, have a 2% body fat ratio, and always look attractive, but not for one second actually take pride in their appearance or else they are a slut. We don't separate men into two categories and two categories alone- "Virgin" or "Whore." We don't immediately assume a guy in costume at a convention is doing it just for the attention and that they have no knowledge about the material, and just want to turn people of the other sex on and mock them about it later.

Things are still not equal for men and women. Women are subjected to far more abuse than men are, especially straight, white males. Women are still paid less than men. As it was stated, Ian Zeiring made more for Sharknado 5 than Gal Gadot made for Wonder Women. Women are subject to more suspicion, paranoia and aggression simply for the fact that they are women, as the Milkshake thing specifically shows.

So, no, I've got no problem with that Jessica Jones statement. Because women do face a far different, and a far more oppressive struggle, than a lot of straight white males. So I don't see any fault in them taking victories where they can, and taking a stand against oppressive attitudes and harassing statements, and not letting those who regard any woman who shows independence as "The enemy" get them down.

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by NickMB » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:17 pm

Plus... to be honest, that's entirely in character for the TV version of Jessica Jones, an aggressively self-reliant domestic abuse survivor whose main villain is basically Male Abuse Of Women Incarnate. The only time this stuff ever seems out of place to me is if it's being rammed into the mouth of a character who I don't think would normally say/think it.

(The main out of character thing there is that I'm not sure Jessica Jones would bother with a Twitter account, tbh. But promotional needs must.)
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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by Cheesedique » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:26 pm

RDMacQ wrote:Woman do have it a lot different than men. Especially white males. Speaking as a white male, I don't have to worry about people making comments about my attractiveness, or whether or not they'd like to have sex with me, or making sexually inappropriate comments. And I'm not just speaking about online. I'm talking about in my everyday life.

I knew a woman who had one of my coworkers just show up at her house one day, out of nowhere, and basically expect sex with her. And she never told this guy where she lived, which added to the creepiness. Another time, I heard two women talking on the bus about how a guy kept coming into the one woman's place of work and hitting on her, making very sexually explicit comments towards her, even after she continually asked him to stop. And, hey, let's not forget the time that students at a Yale fraternity chanted "No means Yes, Yes means Anal."

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/ne ... 92845.html

So, no, things are not equal between men and women. Not by a long shot. A white male can be cast in a particular role, but if a woman is cast in a lead role, all of a sudden there is a massive controversy. Gal Gadot was judged more on her appearance than her acting ability, something that never was a major consideration for stars such as Chris Hemsworth or Chris Evans, or even Chris Pratt. The casting of a female Doctor Who was a major controversy, despite the fact that the series stars a shapeshifting alien from another planet, and such changes have been established before. Women are subjected to insane double standards that men do not even have to consider. We don't ask men to stay in shape, have a 2% body fat ratio, and always look attractive, but not for one second actually take pride in their appearance or else they are a slut. We don't separate men into two categories and two categories alone- "Virgin" or "Whore." We don't immediately assume a guy in costume at a convention is doing it just for the attention and that they have no knowledge about the material, and just want to turn people of the other sex on and mock them about it later.

Things are still not equal for men and women. Women are subjected to far more abuse than men are, especially straight, white males. Women are still paid less than men. As it was stated, Ian Zeiring made more for Sharknado 5 than Gal Gadot made for Wonder Women. Women are subject to more suspicion, paranoia and aggression simply for the fact that they are women, as the Milkshake thing specifically shows.

So, no, I've got no problem with that Jessica Jones statement. Because women do face a far different, and a far more oppressive struggle, than a lot of straight white males. So I don't see any fault in them taking victories where they can, and taking a stand against oppressive attitudes and harassing statements, and not letting those who regard any woman who shows independence as "The enemy" get them down.
Well said--it reminds me of the fairly ridiculous media creation of a little while back of "the Dad bod" and how that was viewed as a vaguely acceptable thing for men to be out of shape.

With women, aside from celebrities appearing on magazine covers pregnant (and always nude), there was no corollary celebration of something like the "Mom bod".

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by RDMacQ » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:03 pm

Cheesedique wrote: Well said--it reminds me of the fairly ridiculous media creation of a little while back of "the Dad bod" and how that was viewed as a vaguely acceptable thing for men to be out of shape.

With women, aside from celebrities appearing on magazine covers pregnant (and always nude), there was no corollary celebration of something like the "Mom bod".
And in response to the notion of "If it was the other way around, would it still be fair?"

But that only works if both sides are equal. And they're not. The representation between men and women in society is not fair and even. Just look at superhero films. If a film starring a male lead fails, they'll reboot it. If it stars a female lead, it's just a failure and nothing more. Not to mention that it took decades for a Wonder Woman film to get made, despite the fact that Wonder Woman- one of DC's Trinity- was beaten to the big screen by Ant Man, the Guardian's of the Galaxy, Suicide Squad and Steel of all characters.

A simple analogy comes to mind in situations like this is, when people ask why women and minorities get "Special" treatment. It's the "Blue Turtle Shell" analogy. Basically, when you are in Mario Kart, the person in lead does not get the super powerful Blue Turtle Shell. That's only for people in last place. Because the person in front does not need it. But the people in the back do. That's why there is a push for women and minorities in fiction, from both Marvel and DC, which the "Anti-SJW" crowd conveniently ignores in their statements. It's because straight white male characters don't need the help. They don't need greater representation. In fact, there is over representation. There is enough room for all. But straight white males really can't expect special treatment because they already get it. It's women and minorities who are looking to get the same, equitable treatment across the board. And the reason they are looking for it is because they do not have it.

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:35 pm

RDMacQ wrote:No, we can't. Because I really haven't seen anything to indicate that this wasn't representative of the whole Anti-SJW movement.


Then I'm sorry but you haven't really looked into some of the community all to well then!
Sargon of Akaad, Chris Ray Gun, Andywarski, Bearing, Blaire White, Computing Forever, Mundane Matt, The Amazing Atheist, MrRepzion, Shoe0nHead, Razörfist, Some Black Guy, Undoomed and many others, are very vocal anti-SJW.
Hell even Laci Green who is a feminist is now trying to create dialogue with them. Sargon and her even actually apologized to one another after years of them fighting and Sargon discovering how much some people were awfull to her because of some of his videos and he then apologized for everything that happened to her, with both of them becoming friends soon after.
No, we can't. Because, quite frankly, things are not the same between Men and Women.
That's not the point that I'm trying to make! If it was the other way around where it said that a man is showering over women tears a lot of people would not like it!

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by RDMacQ » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:52 pm

MRstarkiller360 wrote: Then I'm sorry but you haven't really looked into some of the community all to well then!
Sargon of Akaad, Chris Ray Gun, Andywarski, Bearing, Blaire White, Computing Forever, Mundane Matt, The Amazing Atheist, MrRepzion, Shoe0nHead, Razörfist, Some Black Guy, Undoomed and many others, are very vocal anti-SJW.
Hell even Laci Green who is a feminist is now trying to create dialogue with them. Sargon and her even actually apologized to one another after years of them fighting and Sargon discovering how much some people were awfull to her because of some of his videos and he then apologized for everything that happened to her, with both of them becoming friends soon after.
Actually, I am quite familiar with them and they really haven't impressed me all that much.

The "Amazing Atheist" in particular is someone I'm not too fond of, since he can't seem to provide a counter argument to anything a woman says without calling her a c*nt in the process.
That's not the point that I'm trying to make! If it was the other way around where it said that a man is showering over women tears a lot of people would not like it!
But it can't be "The other way around" because it's not an equitable situation.

A woman talking about standing tall under a bunch of "Crying's Men's Tears" has a different connotation in society than a man saying "Standing under crying women's tears." Especially if said man is a straight white male.

Women are facing oppressing on a lot of levels. Men, particularly straight white men, are not. Most women do have legitimate complaints when it comes to dealing with harassment. Straight white men do not. Women complaining about lack of representation if fiction holds a lot more weight since there is a lack of representation in fiction, which is seen by the fact that Wonder Woman just got her first film in 2017. Ever. Straight white men do not have the same complain, since practically all superhero films are about straight white males. Particularly the Marvel brand. So when they complain about a lack of representation, it is a less legitimate complaint because they are adequately represented, and they complain about having something taken away, rather than asking for something to represent themselves like women and minorities do.

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:31 pm

RDMacQ wrote:Actually, I am quite familiar with them and they really haven't impressed me all that much.

The "Amazing Atheist" in particular is someone I'm not too fond of, since he can't seem to provide a counter argument to anything a woman says without calling her a c*nt in the process.
Calling a woman a c*nt is more in line with what Andywarski has however he has long since stopped doing that because he had a more crude way of comedy when he began YouTube. However I disagree since both of them actually do provide counter argumants for them.

If none of them impressed, you given the fact that many of them have cited their sorces and chances are that you might agree with many of their points, then honestly all I can say to is that I'm sorry, because frankly you seem to have a biast against Anti-SJW.

Also if you want I can point you to Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson because both of them are very intellectual honest man. And they are also Anti-SJW.
But it can't be "The other way around" because it's not an equitable situation.


No it can, it's just something that the media won't ever do because of the backlash that they would receive!
A woman talking about standing tall under a bunch of "Crying's Men's Tears" has a different connotation in society than a man saying "Standing under crying women's tears." Especially if said man is a straight white male.

Women are facing oppressing on a lot of levels. Men, particularly straight white men, are not. Most women do have legitimate complaints when it comes to dealing with harassment. Straight white men do not. Women complaining about lack of representation if fiction holds a lot more weight since there is a lack of representation in fiction, which is seen by the fact that Wonder Woman just got her first film in 2017. Ever. Straight white men do not have the same complain, since practically all superhero films are about straight white males. Particularly the Marvel brand. So when they complain about a lack of representation, it is a less legitimate complaint because they are adequately represented, and they complain about having something taken away, rather than asking for something to represent themselves like women and minorities do.
You know I'm with you on the basis that women face a level of harassment greater than man but here is my problem, you don't fight fire with fire.
So in my perspective of the situation, you shouldn't do either one of those two.
So while I do see the bases of representation of women and other minorities an important thing to have, I don't think it's good to also insult others in the process!

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by RDMacQ » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:04 pm

MRstarkiller360 wrote: Calling a woman a c*nt is more in line with what Andywarski has however he has long since stopped doing that because he had a more crude way of comedy when he began YouTube. However I disagree since both of them actually do provide counter argumants for them.

If none of them impressed, you given the fact that many of them have cited their sorces and chances are that you might agree with many of their points, then honestly all I can say to is that I'm sorry, because frankly you seem to have a biast against Anti-SJW.

Also if you want I can point you to Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson because both of them are very intellectual honest man. And they are also Anti-SJW.
"Citing their sources" doesn't mean much since all that usually means is them implying and arguing about secret, hidden insidious intent behind particular innocent images.

Like arguing that the cover to Invincible Iron Man #11 is somehow a message "Against the patriarchy" and insists that men are inferior to women and women don't need men at all.
No it can, it's just something that the media won't ever do because of the backlash that they would receive!
If things were actually equitable, then there wouldn't be any significant backlash since both sides would have an equal amount of power and influence.

But they don't. Hence why it is not equal.
You know I'm with you on the basis that women face a level of harassment greater than man but here is my problem, you don't fight fire with fire.
They aren't.

They aren't sexually harassing the men. They aren't making sexually aggressive comments towards them. They aren't diminishing or demeaning the men by turning them into sex objects. Or threatening them with sexual acts. Or implying that they are unqualified for their positions which they got solely because of their gender.

As I said, it's not equal.
So in my perspective of the situation, you shouldn't do either one of those two.
And from my perspective, it's one side arguing that they should be allowed to say whatever they want, however they want it, whenever they want, and people just have to accept it because "Free speech." But the second someone fires back at them, it becomes "unfair."

"Free speech" does not mean "I get to say whatever I want, and you can't say anything about it." "Free speech" is "I may not agree with you, but I will fight for your right to express yourself."

So I find it rather disingenuous that the people who claim that their opinions should be respected and heard insist that people they disagree with or who express views that they dislike should just be silent. I feel that way about "Anti-SJW's." And I feel the same way about the people who try to ban speakers who views they disagree with from college campuses.
So while I do see the bases of representation of women and other minorities an important thing to have, I don't think it's good to also insult others in the process!
Except the "insults" being levied at the "Anti-SJW's" are nowhere near as bad as the insults levied at women and minorities.

Again, we are talking about sexually explicit comments and behavior, threats of violence in some cases, and a general attitude of "Stay in the kitchen" verse "You can't keep me down" and "Just keep on complaining, you aren't bothering me." It's not even remotely the same degree.

And it feels a little suspicious that these people who are fighting for a cause that they supposedly strongly believe in, crumble at the first sign of opposition and insist everyone stop being so mean to them, and insist that- while they may have been "mean" as well- that the other side was far meaner, so they should stop first.

That's the real issue. The admonishment of "Both sides are in the wrong" is usually just a way of saying "Hey, the other side should stop picking on me." Because there never seems to be any intent for the "Anti-SJW's" to amend their behavior. No. It's JUST the people critical of them that have to stop. And that's not really being "fair" to all parties.

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by MisterMets » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:34 pm

Timmyb52 wrote:
MisterMets wrote:
So, the defense for saying that someone in a photo looks like she would make a false rape accusation is that they had gotten into arguments with her and her friends before? And how do we know that these women are SJW hires?
I don't know if they are SJW hires...that was the point of the original argument with her by the posters who made the insulting comments to her. Here is a video by one of the guys who was directly involved with the name calling explaining how they had been arguing about the subject of sexism and inexperience in the comics industry before it got out of hand.He goes into and shows the tweets from begginning to end...showing the complete and full context of the arguments being made that day. The full context of the discussion is not just nit-picked parts of it that were used to claim rape and sexual assault by BC ...and are laid out in full and gives anyone interested in wanting to know what really happened that day leading up to the milkshake photo the full context and order of events as they occurred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJTvcC8sN44

Now...as I mentioned I am not "sticking up" for them nor the things they said that were insulting in any way...but the subject that was being discussed during the day was about a controversial subject {Sexism and inexperience} and it was blown way out of proportion and turned into a sexual assault claim when it was nothing more than some people on the internet getting salty with one another. Actual sexual assault and rape requires actual physical contact...not just some dumb mean words said over a social networking site IMHO People are mean to one another every day on the internet and say mean things constantly...is that assault or just people being salty? Anyhow...I believe it was blown out of proportion and was just people on the internet being mean to one another because they couldn't have an adult conversation without resulting in name calling which BC blew out of proportion on a slow news day for click bait.
I've gotta say it's annoying and indulgent for the explanation to be a 26 minute video. Posting the tweets in question would allow someone to make up their mind about whether these guys deserve the opprobrium and move on to other stuff. The video seems to mainly be about how the guys feel about being caught in the firestorm rather than what they said.
RDMacQ wrote:
Timmyb52 wrote:Everyone involved had been arguing and saying mean things to one another all day...and the angry comments were sparked out of name calling back and forth out of a disagreement about sexism and inexperience in the comics industry.
No, they weren't.

The "Discussion" started with a female employee at Marvel posting a picture of herself and some of her friends getting Milkshakes.

People "Responded" from there. Starting with someone saying they'd like to "Bang the girl in front."

It was an internet discussion that got heated and people on both sides said mean things to one another until BC blew it up into something it was not {i.e.sexual harrassment/rape charges}.
How is someone posting a picture of their friends getting milkshakes warrant someone making a comment that a person in the picture would "Look like they'd file false rape charges?"

And how does one determine, solely from just a single picture, that these employees were unqualified to work for Marvel, or were only hired to push a political agenda?
If you would watch the videos I have posted from some of the people involved that day in those arguments you will see it was all just an internet argument and nothing more.
And if you look at the comments from the person who posted the picture in the first place, she does not regard it as an "Internet argument and nothing more."

So why should the people who made the disgusting comments in the first place get our sympathy and the benefit of the doubt, but not the people who feel wronged by said statements?
The milkshake photo was made well into the argument and was not the beginning of that days rudeness and discusssion...
Doesn't matter. These are grown men. They are responsible for their own actions. And no one was forced to make a comment.

Also, not sure how someone saying they'd like to "Bang the girl in front" has anything to do with anything. What conversation was he taking part in where that comment was even remotely relevant to anything but that picture?
it was a break in a wider internet argument involving many people who were discussing the subjects I mentioned.
Or you are merely trying to white wash the statements made by trying to make it seem like it was just "Harmless" rather than creepy, sexist, and racist.
It got out of hand and they all were being rude to one another after the discussion broke down and turned ugly.
Except the woman who posted the picture in the first place had no idea what the statements were being made until the next day.

How can a "Discussion" be happening when one of the key participants wasn't involved for several hours?
That's all it was...which we have all seen take place many times on social media....and especially on message boards every day.
I've been on the internet for a while.

I've never told a woman I'd like to "Bang her." Nor have I accused someone of "Looking like they'd file false rape charges." I've also never assumed, or accused, a female employee that she got the job solely because of her gender or race.

It may happen "Everyday," but that doesn't make it right.

The "rape" thing was one of the mean and salty things said after a day full of disagreement and name calling and was cherry picked out of the days larger discussion because BC wanted to make something out of nothing .
Doesn't make it right. Any more than Slott telling a fan to go "F*ck" themselves.
Yes...the comments were rude and insulting...along with immature but claiming it was sexual harassment/rape/women bashing or sexual assault was just BC /Marvel being over dramatic in their claims and accusations. Lets think about this reasonably and without bias or man-guilt...her and BC's claims would never hold up in court as actual sexual harassment or assault, its just people on the internet being mean and rude to another person on social media and no laws were broken,no one was actually harmed other than some feelings being hurt on both sides of that days long arguing.
Why does it have to hold up in court? It's creepy and predatory comments and behavior.

If this was said to a female employee of Starbucks while she was serving coffee, it still wouldn't be acceptable. The only reason that people are "Defending" this is because it makes the people taking a "Stand" against "SJW's" look bad.

Why is it that Tom Breevort apparently should be fired for saying a female writer should not listen to "Sexist and Racist Turds," but these people making sexist, misogynistic and racist remarks are just hand waved away with a "It was just a salty argument."
Is Marvel or their employee going to file sexual harassment charges? No...of course they aren't because none of it would hold up in court and it was nothing more than a cheap grab at attention IMO.
Still doesn't make it right.

It's still harassment.
This whole Milkshake is a joke and is already pretty much forgotten by a majority of fans and people on the internet...
No. A small group of people who the whole Milkshake thing made them and their entire "Movement" look bad want to make it into a joke and something that they can just ignore, but it's not.

They don't get to rewrite the narrative on this one. They don't get to pretend this never happened, or it's not that big of a deal. They don't get to do that, and they aren't the ones who are allowed to do that.
it was a flash in the pan event and it's over.
Save for all the people still discussing it.

Just because these people don't want to discuss it doesn't mean that it's "Over." As I said, it doesn't work like that.

And if they are too afraid to acknowledge that, then it just shows that these people know that they are in the wrong, but are too cowardly to admit it.
The only reason we are even discussing it at all is because RD brought it up in order to support his belief that the whole Anti-SJW movement has now destroyed itself because of The Milkshake thing...which is not likely IMO.
And it was relevant to the discussion, since it showed how over the top the "Anti-SJW" "movement" is, and how absurd some of their accusations can be.

it showed the "Movement" not to be one based out of a "Concern" for Marvel's "Well being," but one based out of old fashioned sexist and racist attitudes towards women and minorities. In other words, it exposed the "Movement" for exactly what it always was.
True...it was never about the picture or what the girls were doing. That picture was taken during a break in a long internet argument over sexism and inexperience in comics publishing...
Except she wasn't part of the "Argument."

And I'm not sure how someone saying they'd like to "Bang" her somehow is relevant to any discussion. Not to mention someone saying that she looks like she'd file false rape charges.
it was all cherry picked and taken out of context of the larger discussion and argument that had been going on for hours before the Milkshake photo.
So the posters said they'd like to bang the editor in question, and another claimed she looks like she'd file false rape charges, with others saying that the picture proves Marvel's "SJW" agenda, hours before the picture was even posted?

How exactly does that happen?
The photo itself was interjected and posted in the midst of that days long argument which had gotten heated and out of hand. and used by BC and Marvel to generate attention on a slow news day.BC is not exactly the top of the heap when it comes to journalistic integrity IMHO and rely a lot on rumors and click bait type headlines.BC/Marvel did not give the full context of the argument but took a few of the rude comments out of context and made a big deal out of it to generate internet controversy.
Just because a picture was posted while a discussion was happening does not mean it was involved in the discussion.

Because, again, I'm still trying to figure out how someone saying they'd like to "Bang the one in front" with another following with "You better get a consent form because she looks like the type to file false rape charges" has relevance to any conversation.
Slott did apologize after he told a guy to go f*** himself.

As best I can figure, the people responsible for these comments didn't apologize, beyond regretting giving ammo to the SJW side.
MRstarkiller360 wrote:Can't we all just agree that the comments made on the women were idiotic ? Also can we all agree as well that the reaction to a couple of tweets made by trolls was way over the top by Marvel and others and doesn't represent the intere anti-SJW movement ?

Also if we are going to complain about MakeMineMilkshake then how about this little jem that Jessica Jones (Official) twitter account posted :
Image
Is it fair for to critize it ? Because how would it be if it was the other way around ?

By the end of the day I don't think it's fair to gather all of the Anti-SJW movement to a couple of tweets made by trolls!
Is there someone who is a member of the anti-SJW movement who you can point to as an articulate and civil representative?

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by Phantom Roxas » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:56 pm

MisterMets wrote:I've gotta say it's annoying and indulgent for the explanation to be a 26 minute video. Posting the tweets in question would allow someone to make up their mind about whether these guys deserve the opprobrium and move on to other stuff. The video seems to mainly be about how the guys feel about being caught in the firestorm rather than what they said.
Agreed. That seems to be requiring a viewing of the video for participating in this discussion, which asks way too much of anyone in this discussion. I would prefer if Timmyb52 gave his own thoughts rather than having to watch a video that's longer than an episode of television.
Spider-Man is Peter Parker, not Peter Pan.

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:09 pm

RDMacQ wrote:"Citing their sources" doesn't mean much since all that usually means is them implying and arguing about secret, hidden insidious intent behind particular innocent images.

Like arguing that the cover to Invincible Iron Man #11 is somehow a message "Against the patriarchy" and insists that men are inferior to women and women don't need men at all.
The men and women that I cited above operate on their sorces with regards to other things. They don't operate on comic books. And if you wach any of their videos you will see that none of them makes conspiracy theories like that. They might make a cheeky comment or two on how this is about feminism or SJW, but they will be citing their sorces to make their argumant.
The ones who said these kinda things about covers of IIM are Anti-SJW, however there is a reason why I didn't mentioned them in the list of people that I talked about, mainly because everywhere they look they see SJW stuff and honestly they are the one who make SJW a buzzword that has been loosing it's meaning.
They aren't.

They aren't sexually harassing the men. They aren't making sexually aggressive comments towards them. They aren't diminishing or demeaning the men by turning them into sex objects. Or threatening them with sexual acts. Or implying that they are unqualified for their positions which they got solely because of their gender.

As I said, it's not equal.


No but the twitter account is doing it! Like I said don't fight fire with fire. And my message is be better than what you fight.
And from my perspective, it's one side arguing that they should be allowed to say whatever they want, however they want it, whenever they want, and people just have to accept it because "Free speech." But the second someone fires back at them, it becomes "unfair."

"Free speech" does not mean "I get to say whatever I want, and you can't say anything about it." "Free speech" is "I may not agree with you, but I will fight for your right to express yourself."
I agree 100% in the free speech part : everyone should say whatever they want and all of them should face the social consquences of said speech.
And that is what happened with MakeMineMilkshake discusting tweets and the same that happened when you go to see the responding tweets in the bathing on male tears from Jessica Jones!
And many of the Anti-SJW (At the least the ones I cited) will fight for anyone's right to speak, just be ready for a counter-argumant for what you say.
So I find it rather disingenuous that the people who claim that their opinions should be respected and heard insist that people they disagree with or who express views that they dislike should just be silent. I feel that way about "Anti-SJW's." And I feel the same way about the people who try to ban speakers who views they disagree with from college campuses.
No not really. From my perspective, the men and women who I stated above are people who are open to dialogue!
Just last month Sargon of Akaad had a debate with three socialist, a political view that he heavily disagrees, on his own chanel.
Laci Green was embraced by the Anti-SJW community, with many of them apologizing for their animocity. Compare and contrast this with how the feminist and SJW movement reacted to her like she was betraying everything that they stand for. When in reality she still held many of their views.
Sargon of Akaad held multiple podcasts where he invited feminist and SJW to discuss. The Andywarsk held multiple podcast where they actually tried to talk to Franny and others.
Blaire White held a podcast where she debated Onision, a person she deaply hates and is a hardcore feminist and SJW. Steven Crowder had discussions Sally Kohn about Islam on his show. Dave Ruben receives many guest where many hold different opnions from his. Milo Yiannopoulos debated multiple feminist and others and even some Anti-SJWs.
So as far as I can see the Anti-SJW movement has been very open to different opnions that they might disagree!
Except the "insults" being levied at the "Anti-SJW's" are nowhere near as bad as the insults levied at women and minorities.

Again, we are talking about sexually explicit comments and behavior, threats of violence in some cases, and a general attitude of "Stay in the kitchen" verse "You can't keep me down" and "Just keep on complaining, you aren't bothering me." It's not even remotely the same degree.

And it feels a little suspicious that these people who are fighting for a cause that they supposedly strongly believe in, crumble at the first sign of opposition and insist everyone stop being so mean to them, and insist that- while they may have been "mean" as well- that the other side was far meaner, so they should stop first.

That's the real issue. The admonishment of "Both sides are in the wrong" is usually just a way of saying "Hey, the other side should stop picking on me." Because there never seems to be any intent for the "Anti-SJW's" to amend their behavior. No. It's JUST the people critical of them that have to stop. And that's not really being "fair" to all parties.
Boogie2988 dealings with Anita Sarkissian at vidcon 2017 where she bullied Boogie being terrified of her : Sargon of Akaad dealings with Anita Sarkissian at Vidcon 2017 where she called him a garbage human :
  • The attempt on Boogie's life with people sending assassins to his house,
    MundaneMatt receiving twitts about how he should abort his chield,
    MundaneMatt receiving photos of his face cuvered in semen,
    People swating MrRepzion's house,
    Blaire White reciving explicit threats from her roomates being at knife point,
    Blaire White being called transphobic when she is trans woman who right now is going throw surgery and other stuff that I don't know the details of
    Ben Shapiro receiving multiple anti-semetics twitts during the corse of the 2016 election because he left a right leaning jornal and because he didn't support Trump,
    Jordan Peterson being unable to speak in the public campus with many people constantly stoping his way of speech and interruping him,
    People trying to ban Jordan from campus for having different opnions
    Laci Green being lambasted in F***ing effigy after she started dialogue with the Anti-SJW
    Milo Yiannopoulos, Ann Coulter, Ben Shapiro not being able to go to Berkley because of safety reasons, mainly because of Antifa violence
    Pewdiepie being hunted by the Wallstreet jornal with him being fired from Disney and Youtube cancelling many of his shows
    Tariq Nashed fieling illegal copyright and DMCAs against people who criticized him such as the Anti-SJWs
Again I'm not trying to justify the actions of both sides! All that I'm saying is that both sides can be just as vile as the other and the capacity to do so is not relegated to gender or ethinicity!
MisterMets wrote:Is there someone who is a member of the anti-SJW movement who you can point to as an articulate and civil representative?
The people that I cited above are good representitives of the Anti-SJW movement :
Sargon of Akaad, Chris Ray Gun, Andywarski, Bearing, Blaire White, Computing Forever, Mundane Matt, The Amazing Atheist, MrRepzion, Shoe0nHead, Razörfist, Some Black Guy, Undoomed, Steven Crowder, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Milo Yiannopoulos.

The Main two that I would recommend however are Sargon of Akaad and Ben Shapiro.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also just wanted to say that I don't intend to respond anymore to this thread because :
  • One were all going around circles and we won't reach anything productive,
    Two because I belive I made my case well enough and
    Three because when I came to this forum, I came here to talk about Spider-Man and my love for the character and I don't think talking about politics is going to help in anyway.

Good night everyone! And let's all continue to being friendly to one another!

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Re: Marvel's Political Agenda

Post by Timmyb52 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:56 pm

Spider-Padre wrote:I'm a minister, and we have a saying about people who "see a demon behind every tree." True enough that Marvel has a good decade or so of antagonizing its own customers, which has to be one of the stupidest PR strategies I've ever seen. So after a while it's tempting to see everything they do as provocative. But don't see a demon behind every tree.
My main issue and why I doubt Antos claims of victimization is due to the lack of tweets that show she was "assaulted all day long" when she refuses to show and share the large majority of that day's conversation...plus,if you study cases of women who have been sexually threatened,assaulted and raped...they do not celebrate their victimization as Heather Antos seems to do.
If she was "harassed and assaulted with rape threats then why doesn't she report this to the police? Why doesn't she make the identities of the online perpetrators public so we can identify them and condemn them?I Why isn't she making steps to file charges if this is so serious?
Personally, I have seen people say way worse things online then was shared by Antos...and a lot of them on message boards,Facebook and Twitter...and none of those other people {men and women both}, have ever drew attention to themselves by claiming they were sexually harassed,assaulted or raped and made a big deal out of it like Antos,Marvel and BC has.
Antos and BC's claims are suspect and devoid of any real evidence that things occurred as claimed...and it makes it worse when the person who claim they were harassed refuses to show all the evidence to support those same claims.
Dealing with negative and salty people on the internet requires a thick skin...and if you have thin skin then you should block those types of negative people from your social networks or just not partake in online activities.
IMHO...Antos is not a victim and just experienced the same rude and bad behavior many of us have undergone from time to time on the internet. Hell...I've been called some mean things online many times...once...one guy I got into a political argument with several years ago said he wanted to fuck me with a broomstick while my mom watched. Is that sexual harassment? And that was way worse than the tweets we saw she received in that BC article.
People online get into disagreements all the time on the internet and say very nasty and rude things to one another everyday...but yet only Antos wants to play the victim card and then celebrate her victimization as if she is someone more special than anyone else who has suffered bad internet behavior? No...that tells me she is dishonest and so is BC who are participating in this ruse. Antos,Marvel and BC are crying wolf IMHO and this milkshake thing will soon be forgotten just like the Chelsea Cain and the whole Gamergate thing was because she refuses to present real evidence of harassment other then a few tweets taken out of context of a larger argument that she deleted from her Twitter account and refuses to share...this tells me she has nothing of real substance to back up her claims at all.
It doesn't matter to me if you are a woman,man,black person,or whatever someone may be...but when you allege that you have been sexually harassed,assaulted and threatened with rape then you better have some solid evidence to support you claims...and if you have that evidence you should share it. A couple of "tweets" that are just rude and out-of-line {I have seen Slott and other Marvel employees say worse things to fans online}, and taken from a larger conversation you don't wish to share doesn't cut it IMO.
And that is my last word on this milkshake subject.

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