The Current Issue discussion thread.

Discuss Spidey's comics, or any other comics that you like.

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ChiTownSpidey
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by ChiTownSpidey » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:01 pm

MRstarkiller360 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:01 pm

First of... You sir have a wonderfull picture [smilie=spidey_cheers.gif].

Second of : You are completely right. Dan Slott can only write the storie that he want only by writing Peter in an irresponsible way. Something that would never happen.
Peter Parker being writen in a responsible way would never have come to the state that he is right now! The only reason that he is is because of how Slott wants the character to be writen.
Hell... Slott actually makes this abundandly clear with Power Play. Peter would never walk out on a deal of a billion dollars in order to play with Miles.
Peter would never use his company in order to built his own devices. At best he would only enhance his tech. Not to built a Spider-Mobile or a Spider-Jet or a F***ing Spider-Rocket!
I am yet to hear from Slott's fans why did Peter act so irresponsible when it came to PI!
Slott makes this even worse when he admits the problems in the series by making the characters make fun of Peter or out right berate him for something.
Thank you! Took a couple of tries, but I'm trying to find a better one. Working on it! [smilie=spidey_cheers.gif]

I just don't understand how Slott thinks...wait, no I do understand, maybe WHY on how he thinks he should write the character like this. It's really upsetting. Then he just goes on this rant on how the marriage is "NEVER EVER..EVER" getting back together so we should all stop talking about it. Are we? No, because we know it SHOULD come back together. Superman did it...sales are well, Batman JUST started...sales are mostly on top. Yet for Peter/MJ we get the "Never Ever EVER!!!!" speech. Dan lists his complaints on the politics in this company and doesn't shut up about it, that's something he's passionate about. We as fans are passionate about Spider-Man...we have complaints and we will "NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER" stop complaining about it.

"You have RYV, so there you go."

Indeed, so that's were my money goes, not in ASM books. So there you go!

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by RDMacQ » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:06 pm

ChiTownSpidey wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:01 pm
Thank you! Took a couple of tries, but I'm trying to find a better one. Working on it! [smilie=spidey_cheers.gif]

I just don't understand how Slott thinks...wait, no I do understand, maybe WHY on how he thinks he should write the character like this. It's really upsetting. Then he just goes on this rant on how the marriage is "NEVER EVER..EVER" getting back together so we should all stop talking about it. Are we? No, because we know it SHOULD come back together. Superman did it...sales are well, Batman JUST started...sales are mostly on top. Yet for Peter/MJ we get the "Never Ever EVER!!!!" speech. Dan lists his complaints on the politics in this company and doesn't shut up about it, that's something he's passionate about. We as fans are passionate about Spider-Man...we have complaints and we will "NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER" stop complaining about it.

"You have RYV, so there you go."

Indeed, so that's were my money goes, not in ASM books. So there you go!
I think I understand Slott's mindset. Again, I don't think Slott thinks like a comic book professional. I think he reasons like a fan. A fan who has a particular preference and wants to see the franchise move in a certain direction, and doesn't care about the facts or the evidence that may suggest a different reality than what he prefers. He doesn't object to people saying the marriage might come back because it's so unlikely. He objects to it because he prefers Spider-Man a particular way, and doesn't want people pointing out the exceptionally valid reasons as to why it might come back.

It's the same reason he objects so strongly when someone points out the flaws in his stories. Or why he gets so upset when someone points out he may be removed from the title altogether. It's the questioning of his reality, and the dissolution of his fantasy. The fantasy of "Everything I do is going to stick around forever, and I will always get to do what I want."

Slott's objections to these statements aren't because they are so incredibly false. Really, how unreasonable is it to say "Hey, maybe in a decade or two someone who grew up on the marriage will want it back?" Slott objects to it because it challenges what he wishes to be true. He doesn't want the marriage to come back any more than he wants to be removed from the title. And when you get people making those statements, and you have a marketplace where fan complains are being addressed, answered and resulting in a significant upturn in sales for titles, a struggling Marvel with falling sales, and movements around you at your place of work that shows that Marvel is getting lax on it's whole "Peter and MJ should never be married" thing, then that is bound to cause some concern. Which is what we saw earlier this year.

That meltdown that Slott had was in no way made out of confidence. Confident people don't react like that. Tom King isn't worried about people online saying that he sucks and that he needs to be removed. And there are people who are saying that. It's only Slott that is going off the way he is. Meaning that those reactions were made out of fear. Fear of losing his job. Fear of having his work undone and ignored. Fear of being asked, if not ordered, to do the one thing he said was never going to happen.

His *Shrug* "You have RYV, there you go" was fine when he assumed he was in control of the board. But now that the bottom has fallen out of Marvel, and it continues to fall, he's less in control of the narrative and less able to dictate the tone of the conversation. He can longer just shrug off any complaints sent his way. That's why he's so insistent on claiming that he remains top dog. That he IS the top dog, and he doesn't have to do anything to gain anyone back. Because it would mean doing the one thing he doesn't want to do.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by ChiTownSpidey » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:46 am

RDMacQ wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:06 pm

His *Shrug* "You have RYV, there you go" was fine when he assumed he was in control of the board. But now that the bottom has fallen out of Marvel, and it continues to fall, he's less in control of the narrative and less able to dictate the tone of the conversation. He can longer just shrug off any complaints sent his way. That's why he's so insistent on claiming that he remains top dog. That he IS the top dog, and he doesn't have to do anything to gain anyone back. Because it would mean doing the one thing he doesn't want to do.
Yep, I'm seen it happen a dozen times. His mindset to be Top Dog is all about his Ego. That will fade quite quickly once he's done and left after 800.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by RDMacQ » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:17 pm

ChiTownSpidey wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:46 am
Yep, I'm seen it happen a dozen times. His mindset to be Top Dog is all about his Ego. That will fade quite quickly once he's done and left after 800.
It will be interesting to see how his career progresses once he doesn't have the Marvel marketing engine to support him, or have the benefit of working on an established brand with a worldwide audience and a standard base to back him up.

Especially when he has to start pitching projects to people, and trying to get attention on the books in a positive way. He can't just sell to the retailers any longer. And he can't just outright dismiss or insult people who don't like what he does, since he'll have more on the line. He'll also have to try to keep more of a schedule, since he can't just have Christos Gage step in to fill in for him when he gets tired.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Spider-Padre » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:13 pm

I think his negative on-line antics, and chronic lateness will work against him more than opinion about his work, as far as getting new work may go.

I can't prove my guess here, but I don't think publishers think as poorly of his work, over-all, as Crawlspacers do. Over-all, his ASM work has made Marvel quite a bit of money. It doesn't matter if we dislike his iteration of Peter Parker/Spider-Man (I dislike it very much), he has made them some real cash with his novelty hail-Mary story pitches. That's hish bread-and-butter. He doesn't do character drama well at all, his characters are too cartoonish and cliche. He makes his money on way-out-there story premises, combined with complicated gizmo plots that click and ping.

But employers might not want the headaches associated with being his editor -- getting him to produce work on time, stopping him from cyberstalking customers, Twitter ranting, bragging on himself, that sort of thing. If he was being less than honest about his claim that at one time DC was offering him Batman and Superman, -- and by the way, who brags openly about receiving overtures from a competitor, if he wants to stay in good graces with his current employer? -- DC bosses might not want the trouble. (I thought one usually keeps exploratory interactions with potential new employers hush-hush, but I'm older so what do I know?).

But who knows? Alan Moore is a weirdo, but both companies would probably fall over themselves if they could get him to write them a mini-series, so the Big Two have a lot of stomach for difficult writers.

It is curious that Slott started talking about a new creator-owned project, and there have been zero rumors about him taking over any established series.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Masked Guy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:41 pm

WARNING: SPOILERS BELOW

My thoughts on Spectacular Spider-Man vol. 3 #6:

This...was actually a pretty solid issue. Hard to believe, but it was.

Spider-Man and J. Johan Jameson's back and forth was actually played very seriously instead of merely for laughs as I originally feared. Both make great points about the other and it was quite satisfying to see them call each other out on the various bad choices they've made over the years. It's clear that Otto Octavius's actions in Superior Spider-Man are still in effect here and make Jonah's current stance more understandable. And Spidey pointing out all of the super-villains and other dangers Jonah has created over the years in an effort to bring him down was great considering he rarely ever seems to bring those instances up. Jonah's breakdown at the end was very believable and quite sad. Even though his wife Marla asked him to let go of his anger and hate before dying, said anger and hate truly is all Jonah has left in his miserable life at this point. He truly is a broken man.

All that being said, I do have three notable gripes with the issue that hold it back from greatness:

1.) The story, while good, is a bit derivative of the great Friendly Neighborhood vol. 1 #23 issue.

2.) Michael Walsh's artwork simply isn't very appealing to look at

3.) Spidey unmasking to Jonah at the end felt a bit forced and out of character. Peter knows that Jonah is the last person he should trust with his identity. Still, I'm eager to see where this goes.

Other than those quibbles, I quite enjoyed this issue. Hopefully Chip Zdarsky will be able to maintain this momentum.

GRADE: B+

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:55 pm

So... I can not for the life of me belive that this is actually happening : Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man gets a B+ out of me.

I'm honestly impressed as to how much different this feels to the earlier issues. Sure I still don't like how Chip makes Peter look like a child in certain aspects, like when he seats down like a child because he has to!
However the conversation of Peter and J Jonah Jameson was really really good and I'm satisfied the way that this turned out.
And the big twist at the end might just be the thing that makes this series cannon to the series and not something that might be brushed off in the future like it normally happens with the side series.
So this might give me some hope that whatever is happening to Teresa and JJJ won't be something not important to the franchise and won't be something best left forgotten! !

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Timmyb52 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:51 pm

I read it at the comic shop and liked it enough to buy it!
A very good issue IMO...I was really surprised. This issue gets a solid "B" from me.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Big Al » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:34 pm

Spec #6

I'm sorry but I'm about to rip the shit out of this issue so strap in.

There are a SHITTON of problems with the central reveal in the issue. And they mostly link back to you know...THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED!
I'm sorry kids but if you are reading this in the year 2017 there is honestly no excuse for NOT knowing that Spider-Man revealed his idenitty to the world back in the original Civil War storyline. It was only 10-11 years ago and got adapted in a like the biggest comic book movie just last year. Spider-Man's unmasking in particular was the subject of national news and I don't mean in the Marvel Universe, I mean in the REAL world there were news stories about Peter's unmasking.

So...why is anyone in this comments section acting like this is that big of a deal. It's been done before. Recently. And in a MUCH bigger way.

But even putting that aside there is so much shit involved in this reveal that makes no fucking sense.

First of all in Brand New Day we learned that Peter erased everyone's memories of his identity. But they still remembered that he unmasked in Civil War and all their interactions with him. They just didn't remember what his name was, what he looked like, etc; Norman Osborn commented on this phenomenon during New Ways to Die. There was also a psychic blindspot that prevented them from putting the pieces together and figuring it out but that went away during Spider Island, hence Carlie Cooper deduced his identity and broke up with him.

So Jonah remembers SOMEBODY unmasked as Spider-Man, that they worked for him for years and he was upset at them lying to him. Coupled with all the other times Peter has been suspected or linked to Spider-Man alongside Jonah being a former INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST how the fuck did he NOT figure out Peter was Spider-Man between Spider Island and this storyline?

Furthermore the rules surrounding the mindwipe established that the act of unmasking would restore someone’s memories completely so right now Jonah should be remembering Peter unmasking in support of the Super Human Registration Act and their conversation during the penultimate issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, which was part of the Back in Black arc.

Yet we don’t see that.

But that's just the appetizer, let's dig into the main course on why this makes no fucking sense.

Whilst this is an act of compassion on Peter’s part and in a sense that is very true to who he is, the baggage from Civil War again sinks this moment (but it isn't the only thing doing that).

In Civil War Jameson was a man who had the Bugle, had the support of his employees and friends, had his wife, had his adopted daughter and had his son John.

He also had years of gruff yet ultimately true friendship between himself and Peter and he also respected Mary Jane and Aunt May. He was sympathetic towards Peter once or twice upon learning of May’s health problems. He made a point of looking out for information on Mary Jane’s abduction by Jonathan Caesar. He secretly paid for a high price lawyer when Peter was arrested for murder during the Clone Saga. He recognized there was a vendetta between Peter and Norman Osborn during the former’s ownership of the Bugle and partially because of that (and partially due to other factors) resolved to kill Osborn.

Jonah was when push came to shove Peter’s friend.

And yet despite that friendship and the generally positive place his life was in at the time, when Peter unmasked in Civil War 2006 Jonah didn’t see his young friend whom he’d watched grow up over the years. He saw the menace he’d dedicated his life to destroying who’d been tricking and humiliating him for years. Consequently he decided to try and avenge himself on Peter by suing him.

And Peter knew all that.

Jonah in this story has little left to lose and his vendetta against Spider-Man is all that he has left. He even says as much.

So knowing Jonah reacted in a bad way that hurt him back during Civil War, knowing Jonah's life has gotten demonstrably worse since then to the point where his hatred for Spider-Man is all that drives him now, Peter decides to unmask.

What is even the fuck.

Peter in this very issue states the mask is there to protect his loved ones. Loved ones have DIED because a few individuals have known he he was.

So now he’s going to not just give that information to the guy who’s CLEARLY got severe such severe issues with him that he’ll go to extremes to ruin him (and have been doing so since day 1 of his career) but also REMIND him of that OTHER time he USED to know who he was and felt betrayed and humiliated?

Not to mention all those times he objectively tricked him to divert suspicion away from the truth, which included making him believe his own son John was his hated enemy (see Marvel Knights Spider-Man)?

Peter is REALLY going to risk doing that?

What? Is he going to make Eddie Brock remember all their 'good times' together too, so long as Brock seems sad enough?

Yeah okay, that’s a false equivalence because Jonah has never deliberately tried to hurt or endanger other people in his pursuit of Spider-Man and isn’t generally speaking psychotic. But for fuck’s sake he’s funded the creation and efforts of killer robots and multiple super villains to bring in Spider-Man and they’ve usually gone rogue!

So it isn’t THAT false of an equivalency.

Peter knows Jonah highly values journalistic ethics generally speaking, but also knows that he has such a deep vendetta against Spider-Man that he is willing to make exceptions in his specific case.

I don’t give a shit if you say “But he was Peter’s brother-in-law! They were family!”

That doesn’t mean anything when you consider:

a) Following May and Jay’s wedding Jonah publicly denounced Peter for faking pictures and got him blacklisted from any news photography gigs even though Peter faked those photos to HELP Jonah

b) Jonah got Peter his job at HORIZON labs but ONLY upon Marla’s insistence

c) Jonah to some degree at least held Peter accountable for his father’s death!

Face it, the modern day Jonah never really considered Peter family and if he did that consideration definitely didn’t stretch to the point where he’d be all that kindly or caring towards him.

Peter has a VERY reliable track record of Jonah’s past behaviors that would make it plain fucking obvious to him that he shouldn’t let his compassion in the heat of the moment rule his judgement because Jonah is NOT likely to keep his secret, IS very likely to hold a grudge and by extension is a HIGH risk to the secrecy which he vitally needs to protect himself and his loved ones.

In summary Peter unmasking, whilst dramatic, is bullshit.

Yeah, yeah he implores Jonah to look past the mask and see the man he’s known for years.

Except he KNOWS Jonah DIDN’T do that last time, even when Jameson was FAR LESS vulnerable and Joe Robertson (Jonah’s veritable Jimeny Cricket) was by his side trying to talk sense into him.

And yeah he says he did it because he didn’t want Jonah to feel that way. But that becomes royal bullshit when you consider all those times Peter kept OTHER people who were far LESS likely to betray him in the dark despite doing so meaning they felt sad or thought badely of him. Literally up to the 1980s (unless I am forgetting) the ONLY people he entrusted with the secret that could kill people and ruin his life was the woman he loved (Felicia, and that wen South fast) and a child who nobody would believe and who’d be dead within a few months anyway.

By far and away this is the best issue of Spec so far and there is real merit to be had here but the central twist of the story, the thing it’s been building to the whole issue is so utterly idiotic it ruins the whole thing.T/spoiler]
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by stillanerd » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:30 pm

With regards to what happens at the end of this issue, I still don't know whether this was a good idea or not. What I will say is that this comic surprised me...especially since Chip Zdarsky wrote something which, I think, could be one of the best single issue Spider-Man comics of the year.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Cheesedique » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:34 pm

Big Al wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:34 pm
Spec #6

I'm sorry but I'm about to rip the shit out of this issue so strap in.

There are a SHITTON of problems with the central reveal in the issue. And they mostly link back to you know...THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED!
I'm sorry kids but if you are reading this in the year 2017 there is honestly no excuse for NOT knowing that Spider-Man revealed his idenitty to the world back in the original Civil War storyline. It was only 10-11 years ago and got adapted in a like the biggest comic book movie just last year. Spider-Man's unmasking in particular was the subject of national news and I don't mean in the Marvel Universe, I mean in the REAL world there were news stories about Peter's unmasking.

So...why is anyone in this comments section acting like this is that big of a deal. It's been done before. Recently. And in a MUCH bigger way.

But even putting that aside there is so much shit involved in this reveal that makes no fucking sense.

First of all in Brand New Day we learned that Peter erased everyone's memories of his identity. But they still remembered that he unmasked in Civil War and all their interactions with him. They just didn't remember what his name was, what he looked like, etc; Norman Osborn commented on this phenomenon during New Ways to Die. There was also a psychic blindspot that prevented them from putting the pieces together and figuring it out but that went away during Spider Island, hence Carlie Cooper deduced his identity and broke up with him.

So Jonah remembers SOMEBODY unmasked as Spider-Man, that they worked for him for years and he was upset at them lying to him. Coupled with all the other times Peter has been suspected or linked to Spider-Man alongside Jonah being a former INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST how the fuck did he NOT figure out Peter was Spider-Man between Spider Island and this storyline?

Furthermore the rules surrounding the mindwipe established that the act of unmasking would restore someone’s memories completely so right now Jonah should be remembering Peter unmasking in support of the Super Human Registration Act and their conversation during the penultimate issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, which was part of the Back in Black arc.

Yet we don’t see that.

But that's just the appetizer, let's dig into the main course on why this makes no fucking sense.

Whilst this is an act of compassion on Peter’s part and in a sense that is very true to who he is, the baggage from Civil War again sinks this moment (but it isn't the only thing doing that).

In Civil War Jameson was a man who had the Bugle, had the support of his employees and friends, had his wife, had his adopted daughter and had his son John.

He also had years of gruff yet ultimately true friendship between himself and Peter and he also respected Mary Jane and Aunt May. He was sympathetic towards Peter once or twice upon learning of May’s health problems. He made a point of looking out for information on Mary Jane’s abduction by Jonathan Caesar. He secretly paid for a high price lawyer when Peter was arrested for murder during the Clone Saga. He recognized there was a vendetta between Peter and Norman Osborn during the former’s ownership of the Bugle and partially because of that (and partially due to other factors) resolved to kill Osborn.

Jonah was when push came to shove Peter’s friend.

And yet despite that friendship and the generally positive place his life was in at the time, when Peter unmasked in Civil War 2006 Jonah didn’t see his young friend whom he’d watched grow up over the years. He saw the menace he’d dedicated his life to destroying who’d been tricking and humiliating him for years. Consequently he decided to try and avenge himself on Peter by suing him.

And Peter knew all that.

Jonah in this story has little left to lose and his vendetta against Spider-Man is all that he has left. He even says as much.

So knowing Jonah reacted in a bad way that hurt him back during Civil War, knowing Jonah's life has gotten demonstrably worse since then to the point where his hatred for Spider-Man is all that drives him now, Peter decides to unmask.

What is even the fuck.

Peter in this very issue states the mask is there to protect his loved ones. Loved ones have DIED because a few individuals have known he he was.

So now he’s going to not just give that information to the guy who’s CLEARLY got severe such severe issues with him that he’ll go to extremes to ruin him (and have been doing so since day 1 of his career) but also REMIND him of that OTHER time he USED to know who he was and felt betrayed and humiliated?

Not to mention all those times he objectively tricked him to divert suspicion away from the truth, which included making him believe his own son John was his hated enemy (see Marvel Knights Spider-Man)?

Peter is REALLY going to risk doing that?

What? Is he going to make Eddie Brock remember all their 'good times' together too, so long as Brock seems sad enough?

Yeah okay, that’s a false equivalence because Jonah has never deliberately tried to hurt or endanger other people in his pursuit of Spider-Man and isn’t generally speaking psychotic. But for fuck’s sake he’s funded the creation and efforts of killer robots and multiple super villains to bring in Spider-Man and they’ve usually gone rogue!

So it isn’t THAT false of an equivalency.

Peter knows Jonah highly values journalistic ethics generally speaking, but also knows that he has such a deep vendetta against Spider-Man that he is willing to make exceptions in his specific case.

I don’t give a shit if you say “But he was Peter’s brother-in-law! They were family!”

That doesn’t mean anything when you consider:

a) Following May and Jay’s wedding Jonah publicly denounced Peter for faking pictures and got him blacklisted from any news photography gigs even though Peter faked those photos to HELP Jonah

b) Jonah got Peter his job at HORIZON labs but ONLY upon Marla’s insistence

c) Jonah to some degree at least held Peter accountable for his father’s death!

Face it, the modern day Jonah never really considered Peter family and if he did that consideration definitely didn’t stretch to the point where he’d be all that kindly or caring towards him.

Peter has a VERY reliable track record of Jonah’s past behaviors that would make it plain fucking obvious to him that he shouldn’t let his compassion in the heat of the moment rule his judgement because Jonah is NOT likely to keep his secret, IS very likely to hold a grudge and by extension is a HIGH risk to the secrecy which he vitally needs to protect himself and his loved ones.

In summary Peter unmasking, whilst dramatic, is bullshit.

Yeah, yeah he implores Jonah to look past the mask and see the man he’s known for years.

Except he KNOWS Jonah DIDN’T do that last time, even when Jameson was FAR LESS vulnerable and Joe Robertson (Jonah’s veritable Jimeny Cricket) was by his side trying to talk sense into him.

And yeah he says he did it because he didn’t want Jonah to feel that way. But that becomes royal bullshit when you consider all those times Peter kept OTHER people who were far LESS likely to betray him in the dark despite doing so meaning they felt sad or thought badely of him. Literally up to the 1980s (unless I am forgetting) the ONLY people he entrusted with the secret that could kill people and ruin his life was the woman he loved (Felicia, and that wen South fast) and a child who nobody would believe and who’d be dead within a few months anyway.

By far and away this is the best issue of Spec so far and there is real merit to be had here but the central twist of the story, the thing it’s been building to the whole issue is so utterly idiotic it ruins the whole thing.T/spoiler]
Fair points for the most part, and all I can answer it with is: Marvel demonstrably doesn't give a shit about 99% of their own previous continuity (including that which took place within 10 or 12 years ago), and because of that, things like this will probably either be soon ignored or undone in the most silly, insulting way possible.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Big Al » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:39 pm

Cheesedique wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:34 pm
Big Al wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:34 pm
Spec #6

I'm sorry but I'm about to rip the shit out of this issue so strap in.

There are a SHITTON of problems with the central reveal in the issue. And they mostly link back to you know...THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED!
I'm sorry kids but if you are reading this in the year 2017 there is honestly no excuse for NOT knowing that Spider-Man revealed his idenitty to the world back in the original Civil War storyline. It was only 10-11 years ago and got adapted in a like the biggest comic book movie just last year. Spider-Man's unmasking in particular was the subject of national news and I don't mean in the Marvel Universe, I mean in the REAL world there were news stories about Peter's unmasking.

So...why is anyone in this comments section acting like this is that big of a deal. It's been done before. Recently. And in a MUCH bigger way.

But even putting that aside there is so much shit involved in this reveal that makes no fucking sense.

First of all in Brand New Day we learned that Peter erased everyone's memories of his identity. But they still remembered that he unmasked in Civil War and all their interactions with him. They just didn't remember what his name was, what he looked like, etc; Norman Osborn commented on this phenomenon during New Ways to Die. There was also a psychic blindspot that prevented them from putting the pieces together and figuring it out but that went away during Spider Island, hence Carlie Cooper deduced his identity and broke up with him.

So Jonah remembers SOMEBODY unmasked as Spider-Man, that they worked for him for years and he was upset at them lying to him. Coupled with all the other times Peter has been suspected or linked to Spider-Man alongside Jonah being a former INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST how the fuck did he NOT figure out Peter was Spider-Man between Spider Island and this storyline?

Furthermore the rules surrounding the mindwipe established that the act of unmasking would restore someone’s memories completely so right now Jonah should be remembering Peter unmasking in support of the Super Human Registration Act and their conversation during the penultimate issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, which was part of the Back in Black arc.

Yet we don’t see that.

But that's just the appetizer, let's dig into the main course on why this makes no fucking sense.

Whilst this is an act of compassion on Peter’s part and in a sense that is very true to who he is, the baggage from Civil War again sinks this moment (but it isn't the only thing doing that).

In Civil War Jameson was a man who had the Bugle, had the support of his employees and friends, had his wife, had his adopted daughter and had his son John.

He also had years of gruff yet ultimately true friendship between himself and Peter and he also respected Mary Jane and Aunt May. He was sympathetic towards Peter once or twice upon learning of May’s health problems. He made a point of looking out for information on Mary Jane’s abduction by Jonathan Caesar. He secretly paid for a high price lawyer when Peter was arrested for murder during the Clone Saga. He recognized there was a vendetta between Peter and Norman Osborn during the former’s ownership of the Bugle and partially because of that (and partially due to other factors) resolved to kill Osborn.

Jonah was when push came to shove Peter’s friend.

And yet despite that friendship and the generally positive place his life was in at the time, when Peter unmasked in Civil War 2006 Jonah didn’t see his young friend whom he’d watched grow up over the years. He saw the menace he’d dedicated his life to destroying who’d been tricking and humiliating him for years. Consequently he decided to try and avenge himself on Peter by suing him.

And Peter knew all that.

Jonah in this story has little left to lose and his vendetta against Spider-Man is all that he has left. He even says as much.

So knowing Jonah reacted in a bad way that hurt him back during Civil War, knowing Jonah's life has gotten demonstrably worse since then to the point where his hatred for Spider-Man is all that drives him now, Peter decides to unmask.

What is even the fuck.

Peter in this very issue states the mask is there to protect his loved ones. Loved ones have DIED because a few individuals have known he he was.

So now he’s going to not just give that information to the guy who’s CLEARLY got severe such severe issues with him that he’ll go to extremes to ruin him (and have been doing so since day 1 of his career) but also REMIND him of that OTHER time he USED to know who he was and felt betrayed and humiliated?

Not to mention all those times he objectively tricked him to divert suspicion away from the truth, which included making him believe his own son John was his hated enemy (see Marvel Knights Spider-Man)?

Peter is REALLY going to risk doing that?

What? Is he going to make Eddie Brock remember all their 'good times' together too, so long as Brock seems sad enough?

Yeah okay, that’s a false equivalence because Jonah has never deliberately tried to hurt or endanger other people in his pursuit of Spider-Man and isn’t generally speaking psychotic. But for fuck’s sake he’s funded the creation and efforts of killer robots and multiple super villains to bring in Spider-Man and they’ve usually gone rogue!

So it isn’t THAT false of an equivalency.

Peter knows Jonah highly values journalistic ethics generally speaking, but also knows that he has such a deep vendetta against Spider-Man that he is willing to make exceptions in his specific case.

I don’t give a shit if you say “But he was Peter’s brother-in-law! They were family!”

That doesn’t mean anything when you consider:

a) Following May and Jay’s wedding Jonah publicly denounced Peter for faking pictures and got him blacklisted from any news photography gigs even though Peter faked those photos to HELP Jonah

b) Jonah got Peter his job at HORIZON labs but ONLY upon Marla’s insistence

c) Jonah to some degree at least held Peter accountable for his father’s death!

Face it, the modern day Jonah never really considered Peter family and if he did that consideration definitely didn’t stretch to the point where he’d be all that kindly or caring towards him.

Peter has a VERY reliable track record of Jonah’s past behaviors that would make it plain fucking obvious to him that he shouldn’t let his compassion in the heat of the moment rule his judgement because Jonah is NOT likely to keep his secret, IS very likely to hold a grudge and by extension is a HIGH risk to the secrecy which he vitally needs to protect himself and his loved ones.

In summary Peter unmasking, whilst dramatic, is bullshit.

Yeah, yeah he implores Jonah to look past the mask and see the man he’s known for years.

Except he KNOWS Jonah DIDN’T do that last time, even when Jameson was FAR LESS vulnerable and Joe Robertson (Jonah’s veritable Jimeny Cricket) was by his side trying to talk sense into him.

And yeah he says he did it because he didn’t want Jonah to feel that way. But that becomes royal bullshit when you consider all those times Peter kept OTHER people who were far LESS likely to betray him in the dark despite doing so meaning they felt sad or thought badely of him. Literally up to the 1980s (unless I am forgetting) the ONLY people he entrusted with the secret that could kill people and ruin his life was the woman he loved (Felicia, and that wen South fast) and a child who nobody would believe and who’d be dead within a few months anyway.

By far and away this is the best issue of Spec so far and there is real merit to be had here but the central twist of the story, the thing it’s been building to the whole issue is so utterly idiotic it ruins the whole thing.T/spoiler]
Fair points for the most part, and all I can answer it with is: Marvel demonstrably doesn't give a shit about 99% of their own previous continuity (including that which took place within 10 or 12 years ago), and because of that, things like this will probably either be soon ignored or undone in the most silly, insulting way possible.
Marvel not caring doesn't mean we shouldn't
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Timmyb52
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Timmyb52 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:20 pm

Big Al wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:34 pm
Spec #6

I'm sorry but I'm about to rip the shit out of this issue so strap in.

There are a SHITTON of problems with the central reveal in the issue. And they mostly link back to you know...THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED!
I'm sorry kids but if you are reading this in the year 2017 there is honestly no excuse for NOT knowing that Spider-Man revealed his idenitty to the world back in the original Civil War storyline. It was only 10-11 years ago and got adapted in a like the biggest comic book movie just last year. Spider-Man's unmasking in particular was the subject of national news and I don't mean in the Marvel Universe, I mean in the REAL world there were news stories about Peter's unmasking.

So...why is anyone in this comments section acting like this is that big of a deal. It's been done before. Recently. And in a MUCH bigger way.

But even putting that aside there is so much shit involved in this reveal that makes no fucking sense.

First of all in Brand New Day we learned that Peter erased everyone's memories of his identity. But they still remembered that he unmasked in Civil War and all their interactions with him. They just didn't remember what his name was, what he looked like, etc; Norman Osborn commented on this phenomenon during New Ways to Die. There was also a psychic blindspot that prevented them from putting the pieces together and figuring it out but that went away during Spider Island, hence Carlie Cooper deduced his identity and broke up with him.

So Jonah remembers SOMEBODY unmasked as Spider-Man, that they worked for him for years and he was upset at them lying to him. Coupled with all the other times Peter has been suspected or linked to Spider-Man alongside Jonah being a former INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST how the fuck did he NOT figure out Peter was Spider-Man between Spider Island and this storyline?

Furthermore the rules surrounding the mindwipe established that the act of unmasking would restore someone’s memories completely so right now Jonah should be remembering Peter unmasking in support of the Super Human Registration Act and their conversation during the penultimate issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, which was part of the Back in Black arc.

Yet we don’t see that.

But that's just the appetizer, let's dig into the main course on why this makes no fucking sense.

Whilst this is an act of compassion on Peter’s part and in a sense that is very true to who he is, the baggage from Civil War again sinks this moment (but it isn't the only thing doing that).

In Civil War Jameson was a man who had the Bugle, had the support of his employees and friends, had his wife, had his adopted daughter and had his son John.

He also had years of gruff yet ultimately true friendship between himself and Peter and he also respected Mary Jane and Aunt May. He was sympathetic towards Peter once or twice upon learning of May’s health problems. He made a point of looking out for information on Mary Jane’s abduction by Jonathan Caesar. He secretly paid for a high price lawyer when Peter was arrested for murder during the Clone Saga. He recognized there was a vendetta between Peter and Norman Osborn during the former’s ownership of the Bugle and partially because of that (and partially due to other factors) resolved to kill Osborn.

Jonah was when push came to shove Peter’s friend.

And yet despite that friendship and the generally positive place his life was in at the time, when Peter unmasked in Civil War 2006 Jonah didn’t see his young friend whom he’d watched grow up over the years. He saw the menace he’d dedicated his life to destroying who’d been tricking and humiliating him for years. Consequently he decided to try and avenge himself on Peter by suing him.

And Peter knew all that.

Jonah in this story has little left to lose and his vendetta against Spider-Man is all that he has left. He even says as much.

So knowing Jonah reacted in a bad way that hurt him back during Civil War, knowing Jonah's life has gotten demonstrably worse since then to the point where his hatred for Spider-Man is all that drives him now, Peter decides to unmask.

What is even the fuck.

Peter in this very issue states the mask is there to protect his loved ones. Loved ones have DIED because a few individuals have known he he was.

So now he’s going to not just give that information to the guy who’s CLEARLY got severe such severe issues with him that he’ll go to extremes to ruin him (and have been doing so since day 1 of his career) but also REMIND him of that OTHER time he USED to know who he was and felt betrayed and humiliated?

Not to mention all those times he objectively tricked him to divert suspicion away from the truth, which included making him believe his own son John was his hated enemy (see Marvel Knights Spider-Man)?

Peter is REALLY going to risk doing that?

What? Is he going to make Eddie Brock remember all their 'good times' together too, so long as Brock seems sad enough?

Yeah okay, that’s a false equivalence because Jonah has never deliberately tried to hurt or endanger other people in his pursuit of Spider-Man and isn’t generally speaking psychotic. But for fuck’s sake he’s funded the creation and efforts of killer robots and multiple super villains to bring in Spider-Man and they’ve usually gone rogue!

So it isn’t THAT false of an equivalency.

Peter knows Jonah highly values journalistic ethics generally speaking, but also knows that he has such a deep vendetta against Spider-Man that he is willing to make exceptions in his specific case.

I don’t give a shit if you say “But he was Peter’s brother-in-law! They were family!”

That doesn’t mean anything when you consider:

a) Following May and Jay’s wedding Jonah publicly denounced Peter for faking pictures and got him blacklisted from any news photography gigs even though Peter faked those photos to HELP Jonah

b) Jonah got Peter his job at HORIZON labs but ONLY upon Marla’s insistence

c) Jonah to some degree at least held Peter accountable for his father’s death!

Face it, the modern day Jonah never really considered Peter family and if he did that consideration definitely didn’t stretch to the point where he’d be all that kindly or caring towards him.

Peter has a VERY reliable track record of Jonah’s past behaviors that would make it plain fucking obvious to him that he shouldn’t let his compassion in the heat of the moment rule his judgement because Jonah is NOT likely to keep his secret, IS very likely to hold a grudge and by extension is a HIGH risk to the secrecy which he vitally needs to protect himself and his loved ones.

In summary Peter unmasking, whilst dramatic, is bullshit.

Yeah, yeah he implores Jonah to look past the mask and see the man he’s known for years.

Except he KNOWS Jonah DIDN’T do that last time, even when Jameson was FAR LESS vulnerable and Joe Robertson (Jonah’s veritable Jimeny Cricket) was by his side trying to talk sense into him.

And yeah he says he did it because he didn’t want Jonah to feel that way. But that becomes royal bullshit when you consider all those times Peter kept OTHER people who were far LESS likely to betray him in the dark despite doing so meaning they felt sad or thought badely of him. Literally up to the 1980s (unless I am forgetting) the ONLY people he entrusted with the secret that could kill people and ruin his life was the woman he loved (Felicia, and that wen South fast) and a child who nobody would believe and who’d be dead within a few months anyway.

By far and away this is the best issue of Spec so far and there is real merit to be had here but the central twist of the story, the thing it’s been building to the whole issue is so utterly idiotic it ruins the whole thing.T/spoiler]
To be honest...my grading this issue a solid "B" had little to nothing to do with the reveal to Jonah {which I found to be very forced,as if Marvel was needing something big to bring disgruntled and lapsed fans back to the books}...it was due to an improvement in writing over what Chip had been giving us with issue # 1-5.
Issue # 6 is far from perfect and has its problems for sure {especially as it concerns the reveal to Jonah}. It was really nice IMHO to have a pretty solid issue after so much that has come before that could just be enjoyed for what it is.
Does this mean Chip is going to start delivering better stories? That remains to be seen IMHO...but issue # 6 was a pleasent surprise in that it just gave us a good story without too much baggage.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by RDMacQ » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:07 pm

stillanerd wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:30 pm
With regards to what happens at the end of this issue, I still don't know whether this was a good idea or not. What I will say is that this comic surprised me...especially since Chip Zdarsky wrote something which, I think, could be one of the best single issue Spider-Man comics of the year.

Stillanerd Reviews: Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #6 review
The consequences of this issue aside, I hope that this, along with the positive reaction to Renew Your Vows, tells Marvel the tone and direction that their fans are looking for in the series. Less "Lovable Loser"- emphasis on the loser part of that statement- and more of the mature, grounded and likeable Spider-Man that is less about acting like a fool and more acting like a hero.

It's interesting that we seem to be seeing a trend turning away from just solely depicting a young Spider-Man and more towards celebrating the older, more mature Spider-Man. Not just here, but also in the upcoming Insomniac game. Granted, 23 isn't "Old" per se, but the Spider-Man in the game is certainly being advertised as being a more mature version of the character.

It's kind of like what happened with Batman, and how for a long, long time (Longer than should have been allowed, in my opinion) Batman was governed by the over the top "Grimdark" "My parents are dead and the whole world is pain and suffering!" portrayal that was defined by the works of Frank Miller in the 80's. Only to now- thanks to the likes of Grant Morrison- see the celebration of all aspects of Batman's world, even the sillier side of things.

The focus on celebrating the "Younger" aspects of Spider-Man seemed appealing for a while, but I think they have now run their course for the time being. I think the appeal of a "Younger" Spidey has since worn off and the appetite for a different sort of Spider-Man is being felt more and more. Hopefully, Marvel realizes this too and acts on it, rather than just go back to the well and argue "What we need is to have a YOUNG SPIDER-MAN again!"

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Big Al
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Big Al » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:26 am

Timmyb52 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:20 pm
Big Al wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:34 pm
Spec #6

I'm sorry but I'm about to rip the shit out of this issue so strap in.

There are a SHITTON of problems with the central reveal in the issue. And they mostly link back to you know...THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED!
I'm sorry kids but if you are reading this in the year 2017 there is honestly no excuse for NOT knowing that Spider-Man revealed his idenitty to the world back in the original Civil War storyline. It was only 10-11 years ago and got adapted in a like the biggest comic book movie just last year. Spider-Man's unmasking in particular was the subject of national news and I don't mean in the Marvel Universe, I mean in the REAL world there were news stories about Peter's unmasking.

So...why is anyone in this comments section acting like this is that big of a deal. It's been done before. Recently. And in a MUCH bigger way.

But even putting that aside there is so much shit involved in this reveal that makes no fucking sense.

First of all in Brand New Day we learned that Peter erased everyone's memories of his identity. But they still remembered that he unmasked in Civil War and all their interactions with him. They just didn't remember what his name was, what he looked like, etc; Norman Osborn commented on this phenomenon during New Ways to Die. There was also a psychic blindspot that prevented them from putting the pieces together and figuring it out but that went away during Spider Island, hence Carlie Cooper deduced his identity and broke up with him.

So Jonah remembers SOMEBODY unmasked as Spider-Man, that they worked for him for years and he was upset at them lying to him. Coupled with all the other times Peter has been suspected or linked to Spider-Man alongside Jonah being a former INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST how the fuck did he NOT figure out Peter was Spider-Man between Spider Island and this storyline?

Furthermore the rules surrounding the mindwipe established that the act of unmasking would restore someone’s memories completely so right now Jonah should be remembering Peter unmasking in support of the Super Human Registration Act and their conversation during the penultimate issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, which was part of the Back in Black arc.

Yet we don’t see that.

But that's just the appetizer, let's dig into the main course on why this makes no fucking sense.

Whilst this is an act of compassion on Peter’s part and in a sense that is very true to who he is, the baggage from Civil War again sinks this moment (but it isn't the only thing doing that).

In Civil War Jameson was a man who had the Bugle, had the support of his employees and friends, had his wife, had his adopted daughter and had his son John.

He also had years of gruff yet ultimately true friendship between himself and Peter and he also respected Mary Jane and Aunt May. He was sympathetic towards Peter once or twice upon learning of May’s health problems. He made a point of looking out for information on Mary Jane’s abduction by Jonathan Caesar. He secretly paid for a high price lawyer when Peter was arrested for murder during the Clone Saga. He recognized there was a vendetta between Peter and Norman Osborn during the former’s ownership of the Bugle and partially because of that (and partially due to other factors) resolved to kill Osborn.

Jonah was when push came to shove Peter’s friend.

And yet despite that friendship and the generally positive place his life was in at the time, when Peter unmasked in Civil War 2006 Jonah didn’t see his young friend whom he’d watched grow up over the years. He saw the menace he’d dedicated his life to destroying who’d been tricking and humiliating him for years. Consequently he decided to try and avenge himself on Peter by suing him.

And Peter knew all that.

Jonah in this story has little left to lose and his vendetta against Spider-Man is all that he has left. He even says as much.

So knowing Jonah reacted in a bad way that hurt him back during Civil War, knowing Jonah's life has gotten demonstrably worse since then to the point where his hatred for Spider-Man is all that drives him now, Peter decides to unmask.

What is even the fuck.

Peter in this very issue states the mask is there to protect his loved ones. Loved ones have DIED because a few individuals have known he he was.

So now he’s going to not just give that information to the guy who’s CLEARLY got severe such severe issues with him that he’ll go to extremes to ruin him (and have been doing so since day 1 of his career) but also REMIND him of that OTHER time he USED to know who he was and felt betrayed and humiliated?

Not to mention all those times he objectively tricked him to divert suspicion away from the truth, which included making him believe his own son John was his hated enemy (see Marvel Knights Spider-Man)?

Peter is REALLY going to risk doing that?

What? Is he going to make Eddie Brock remember all their 'good times' together too, so long as Brock seems sad enough?

Yeah okay, that’s a false equivalence because Jonah has never deliberately tried to hurt or endanger other people in his pursuit of Spider-Man and isn’t generally speaking psychotic. But for fuck’s sake he’s funded the creation and efforts of killer robots and multiple super villains to bring in Spider-Man and they’ve usually gone rogue!

So it isn’t THAT false of an equivalency.

Peter knows Jonah highly values journalistic ethics generally speaking, but also knows that he has such a deep vendetta against Spider-Man that he is willing to make exceptions in his specific case.

I don’t give a shit if you say “But he was Peter’s brother-in-law! They were family!”

That doesn’t mean anything when you consider:

a) Following May and Jay’s wedding Jonah publicly denounced Peter for faking pictures and got him blacklisted from any news photography gigs even though Peter faked those photos to HELP Jonah

b) Jonah got Peter his job at HORIZON labs but ONLY upon Marla’s insistence

c) Jonah to some degree at least held Peter accountable for his father’s death!

Face it, the modern day Jonah never really considered Peter family and if he did that consideration definitely didn’t stretch to the point where he’d be all that kindly or caring towards him.

Peter has a VERY reliable track record of Jonah’s past behaviors that would make it plain fucking obvious to him that he shouldn’t let his compassion in the heat of the moment rule his judgement because Jonah is NOT likely to keep his secret, IS very likely to hold a grudge and by extension is a HIGH risk to the secrecy which he vitally needs to protect himself and his loved ones.

In summary Peter unmasking, whilst dramatic, is bullshit.

Yeah, yeah he implores Jonah to look past the mask and see the man he’s known for years.

Except he KNOWS Jonah DIDN’T do that last time, even when Jameson was FAR LESS vulnerable and Joe Robertson (Jonah’s veritable Jimeny Cricket) was by his side trying to talk sense into him.

And yeah he says he did it because he didn’t want Jonah to feel that way. But that becomes royal bullshit when you consider all those times Peter kept OTHER people who were far LESS likely to betray him in the dark despite doing so meaning they felt sad or thought badely of him. Literally up to the 1980s (unless I am forgetting) the ONLY people he entrusted with the secret that could kill people and ruin his life was the woman he loved (Felicia, and that wen South fast) and a child who nobody would believe and who’d be dead within a few months anyway.

By far and away this is the best issue of Spec so far and there is real merit to be had here but the central twist of the story, the thing it’s been building to the whole issue is so utterly idiotic it ruins the whole thing.T/spoiler]
To be honest...my grading this issue a solid "B" had little to nothing to do with the reveal to Jonah {which I found to be very forced,as if Marvel was needing something big to bring disgruntled and lapsed fans back to the books}...it was due to an improvement in writing over what Chip had been giving us with issue # 1-5.
Issue # 6 is far from perfect and has its problems for sure {especially as it concerns the reveal to Jonah}. It was really nice IMHO to have a pretty solid issue after so much that has come before that could just be enjoyed for what it is.
Does this mean Chip is going to start delivering better stories? That remains to be seen IMHO...but issue # 6 was a pleasent surprise in that it just gave us a good story without too much baggage.
Does the reveal itself though and the illogic of it not thereby compromise the quality overall though?
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