The Current Issue discussion thread.

Discuss Spidey's comics, or any other comics that you like.

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The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by RDMacQ » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:05 pm

I figured that I'd start this thread as a place for people to come and discuss the current issues of whatever Spider-Man comic has been released.

So it can be Amazing Spider-Man, Renew Your Vows, Venom, Silk, Miles' book, what have you. You can come here, give your thoughts on the Spider-Man comics you've just read, and have a discussion with others regarding it.

I thought I'd make this a separate thread of it's own since we can have the "What's in store" thread for potential future events related to Spider-Man, with this just being about the comics themselves and our thoughts on the stories.

In addition, even though there are the reviews on the front page, I thought a thread like this would allow for an easier back and forth between participants to discuss and build upon ideas, which the comments sections in the reviews don't really allow. Plus, usually those discussions are about responding to the ideas put forth by the reviewers, where this thread can be about your own thoughts.

So, today we had Amazing Spider-Man #22 and Venom #2. What are your thoughts on these comics? Did you enjoy them? Or did you think they could have been improved?

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by WeirdSpider » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:52 pm

Got Renew Your Vows issue 2 the other day and I really enjoyed it. Both the writing and art were really good.
I like how this issue focused on Mary Jane. I'm guessing that next issue will be from Annie's pov.

Also I loved this moment.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by stillanerd » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:15 am

Finally was able to finish my review for Amazing Spider-Man #22. And if there's a theme I have for it, it's that maybe "Ben Reilly" (or rather Ben27 as I see he's being called now) really was better off dead and should've stayed that way. Not because the answers we get, but because how this comic gives us those answers.

Stillanerd Reviews: Amazing Spider-Man (2015) #22
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by John Ossie » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:55 am

Read issue 22 of ASM on Wednesday. I thought the issue itself was ''ok''. Nothing special, wasn't particularly bad but not great. 6 out of 10 is the overall score I give it personally.

I thought the Ben Reilly ''flashback'' part of the story was probably the most interesting part of the book for me. Little bit disappointed with Camuncoli's art work in this issue as I usually think his work is better than it was in this issue, specially the second half of the issue felt particularly off to me personally.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by WolfCypher » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:18 pm

In Spidey related news, I've never seen an event book with such a low score, and I had to somehow get through Original SIn...

http://www.comicosity.com/review-civil-war-ii-8/
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Cheesedique » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:20 am

WolfCypher wrote:In Spidey related news, I've never seen an event book with such a low score, and I had to somehow get through Original SIn...

http://www.comicosity.com/review-civil-war-ii-8/
I haven't read any of the issues, but wow, that's a pretty damning critique. I thought Bendis was better than this?

CWII sounds like it was a massive waste of time. Any bets on when Marvel does CWIII?

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by RDMacQ » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:40 pm

Cheesedique wrote:I haven't read any of the issues, but wow, that's a pretty damning critique. I thought Bendis was better than this?

CWII sounds like it was a massive waste of time. Any bets on when Marvel does CWIII?
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the story of Civil War II was changed partway through production, hence why the ending was delayed to the point that it was. I'd suspect that perhaps things were changed partway through perhaps in reaction to Rebirth, to sluggish sales on the other titles and the lackluster attitude people had to All New Marvel Now!

Seriously, despite their claims otherwise, I suspect that not even Marvel can ignore the impact that Rebirth had, and the sales they achieved. The problem is that Marvel basically blocked off an entire years worth of stories to follow up Civil War II. Which is fine, if they are on top of the charts and things are going fine. It's not great when you aren't at the top of the charts, your competition is getting all the good press and attention, and sales on your books aren't doing too great.

(For example, practically all of the Rebirth titles managed to score great sales. But several All New Marvel Now launches are- as retailers put them- "Dead on Arrival.")

So I think that there was probably a restructuring of how the story would play out and end. Tony Stark's "death" for instance, could have been decided to have been an actual death, rather than a metaphorical one. This prevents such a steep divide between the "Old" (Represented by Carol and the old guard) and the "New"(Represented by the Champions) since it's not over Tony's dead body. He's still alive, just moved off the stage for a while till it's time to bring him back. And while there's still conflict, it's not to the point where it will cause another Civil War type event in the middle of the year. Or that the planned follow up launches to the Civil War II arc was shelved in favour of other launches that would be more in line with the elements that Rebirth started. The last thing Marvel wants to do, probably, is be caught flat footed again.

On another note, I kind of wonder if one of the final visions in the book means what we think it means. Out of all of them, Peter Parker doesn't seem to show up at all. Which is kind of weird, given the fact that Peter is one of their biggest stars, and his character has finally been returned to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and will make his debut in a big way. This isn't like the Fantastic Four, who are personae non-grata at Marvel these days. There's no real reason why Peter Parker should be downplayed.

But perhaps the clue is in the fact that most of these images are implied to happen within the next "year" or so. But if that were the case, then why does Miles look so noticeably aged in that scene with Cap? None of the other previews have the younger heroes looking noticeably older, so why is Miles an exception? Maybe because it's not Miles in that scene, but Peter wearing Miles' costume. Perhaps something happens to Miles, he's injured in some way, and Peter dons his costume in order to honour the younger hero in his conflict with Cap. And that the fallout to the Hydra Cap storyline will actually feature a battle between parties led by Peter, against forces led by Cap.

It certainly would make sense given the fact that Spider-Man would have greater prominence at Marvel these days due to them getting the movie rights to him back.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Cheesedique » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:15 pm

RDMacQ wrote:
Cheesedique wrote:I haven't read any of the issues, but wow, that's a pretty damning critique. I thought Bendis was better than this?

CWII sounds like it was a massive waste of time. Any bets on when Marvel does CWIII?
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the story of Civil War II was changed partway through production, hence why the ending was delayed to the point that it was. I'd suspect that perhaps things were changed partway through perhaps in reaction to Rebirth, to sluggish sales on the other titles and the lackluster attitude people had to All New Marvel Now!

Seriously, despite their claims otherwise, I suspect that not even Marvel can ignore the impact that Rebirth had, and the sales they achieved. The problem is that Marvel basically blocked off an entire years worth of stories to follow up Civil War II. Which is fine, if they are on top of the charts and things are going fine. It's not great when you aren't at the top of the charts, your competition is getting all the good press and attention, and sales on your books aren't doing too great.

(For example, practically all of the Rebirth titles managed to score great sales. But several All New Marvel Now launches are- as retailers put them- "Dead on Arrival.")

So I think that there was probably a restructuring of how the story would play out and end. Tony Stark's "death" for instance, could have been decided to have been an actual death, rather than a metaphorical one. This prevents such a steep divide between the "Old" (Represented by Carol and the old guard) and the "New"(Represented by the Champions) since it's not over Tony's dead body. He's still alive, just moved off the stage for a while till it's time to bring him back. And while there's still conflict, it's not to the point where it will cause another Civil War type event in the middle of the year. Or that the planned follow up launches to the Civil War II arc was shelved in favour of other launches that would be more in line with the elements that Rebirth started. The last thing Marvel wants to do, probably, is be caught flat footed again.

On another note, I kind of wonder if one of the final visions in the book means what we think it means. Out of all of them, Peter Parker doesn't seem to show up at all. Which is kind of weird, given the fact that Peter is one of their biggest stars, and his character has finally been returned to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and will make his debut in a big way. This isn't like the Fantastic Four, who are personae non-grata at Marvel these days. There's no real reason why Peter Parker should be downplayed.

But perhaps the clue is in the fact that most of these images are implied to happen within the next "year" or so. But if that were the case, then why does Miles look so noticeably aged in that scene with Cap? None of the other previews have the younger heroes looking noticeably older, so why is Miles an exception? Maybe because it's not Miles in that scene, but Peter wearing Miles' costume. Perhaps something happens to Miles, he's injured in some way, and Peter dons his costume in order to honour the younger hero in his conflict with Cap. And that the fallout to the Hydra Cap storyline will actually feature a battle between parties led by Peter, against forces led by Cap.

It certainly would make sense given the fact that Spider-Man would have greater prominence at Marvel these days due to them getting the movie rights to him back.
Yeah, at first people were (and still are) chalking DC's Rebirth success up to the returnability factor of the issues, but I don't think they can keep denying anymore that Rebirth has really gained traction with readers.

And why wouldn't it? Look at the Marvel end of things: endless reboots to #1, the pushing of unpopular characters like Inhumans, the pushing of unpopular concepts like Peter as Tony Stark-lite, and the complete shafting of the Fantastic Four, Marvel's first family.

Not to derail this thread's topic, but Marvel kinda deserves the scorn at this point. They're not overly connecting with readers, and their ideas are tired. I really think Axel Alonso needs to be replaced as EiC.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:58 pm

RDMacQ wrote: On another note, I kind of wonder if one of the final visions in the book means what we think it means. Out of all of them, Peter Parker doesn't seem to show up at all. Which is kind of weird, given the fact that Peter is one of their biggest stars, and his character has finally been returned to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and will make his debut in a big way. This isn't like the Fantastic Four, who are personae non-grata at Marvel these days. There's no real reason why Peter Parker should be downplayed.

But perhaps the clue is in the fact that most of these images are implied to happen within the next "year" or so. But if that were the case, then why does Miles look so noticeably aged in that scene with Cap? None of the other previews have the younger heroes looking noticeably older, so why is Miles an exception? Maybe because it's not Miles in that scene, but Peter wearing Miles' costume. Perhaps something happens to Miles, he's injured in some way, and Peter dons his costume in order to honour the younger hero in his conflict with Cap. And that the fallout to the Hydra Cap storyline will actually feature a battle between parties led by Peter, against forces led by Cap.

It certainly would make sense given the fact that Spider-Man would have greater prominence at Marvel these days due to them getting the movie rights to him back.
The reason for that is simple : Bendis.
If Bendis had to choose one of the two Spider-Men to promote he will choose Miles over Peter because Miles is his pet creation but that's my personal opnion.
However we can also add to the fact that in comparison between the two of them, Miles' book is not doing so well so that may be another reason as to why the big push for Miles in this event and other books!
However I do belive that they are only starting to promote Peter now with the end of Civil War 2 with the likes of "Marvel NOW's Avengers" however, imo, it is still very little in comparison to other Spider-Charactors like Miles, Gwen and Silk.
Cheesedique wrote: And why wouldn't it? Look at the Marvel end of things: endless reboots to #1, the pushing of unpopular characters like Inhumans, the pushing of unpopular concepts like Peter as Tony Stark-lite, and the complete shafting of the Fantastic Four, Marvel's first family.

Not to derail this thread's topic, but Marvel kinda deserves the scorn at this point. They're not overly connecting with readers, and their ideas are tired. I really think Axel Alonso needs to be replaced as EiC.
The excessive use of mega events that makes less and less impact on the Marvel Universe like Civil War 2 (Seriusly by the end of the day, what did this event achived aside from killing the Hulk and "killing" Iron-Man ?).
For me however the biggest reason as to why Marvel is loosing to DC is because of their complete apathy for their customer base.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by RDMacQ » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:09 pm

Cheesedique wrote: Yeah, at first people were (and still are) chalking DC's Rebirth success up to the returnability factor of the issues, but I don't think they can keep denying anymore that Rebirth has really gained traction with readers.
Yeah, while I think that returnability was a factor in initial sales, I don't think it can be attributed to JUST that. I mean, there are tricks and gimmicks one can use to boost up sales- of which Marvel often uses themselves- but the continued sales success cannot be attributed to that alone. I think the returnability did help to give retailers and fans confidence in said material, since it essentially was an unspoken guarantee that "You will like these books." But since we haven't heard of mass returns, it shows that such a tactic was sound, and offering retailers the option to return unsold copies actually helps the industry, and isn't a detriment to it.
And why wouldn't it? Look at the Marvel end of things: endless reboots to #1, the pushing of unpopular characters like Inhumans, the pushing of unpopular concepts like Peter as Tony Stark-lite, and the complete shafting of the Fantastic Four, Marvel's first family.

Not to derail this thread's topic, but Marvel kinda deserves the scorn at this point. They're not overly connecting with readers, and their ideas are tired. I really think Axel Alonso needs to be replaced as EiC.
Well, this is a thread about the current issues, and if this is the topic the discussion goes in, why not?

And, yes, I do think that there needs to be a change at Marvel. The last two years have shown that they have grown dependant upon the "Marvel NOW" and the "All NEW Marvel NOW" branding cycles. And while those did work in the past, they aren't working now. Series aren't getting the boosts they deserve, and they are quickly being cancelled or falling in sales.

That doesn't mean I think that Axel Alonso should be replaced, however. Keep in mind that the same people who brought about Rebirth also brought about the Nu52. So a complete changeover isn't necessary. It's just that the folks at Marvel have to be open at taking a different approach to things, and not just be dependant on the same old cycle of launches and expecting the same results.
MRstarkiller360 wrote:The reason for that is simple : Bendis.
If Bendis had to choose one of the two Spider-Men to promote he will choose Miles over Peter because Miles is his pet creation but that's my personal opnion.
However we can also add to the fact that in comparison between the two of them, Miles' book is not doing so well so that may be another reason as to why the big push for Miles in this event and other books!
However I do belive that they are only starting to promote Peter now with the end of Civil War 2 with the likes of "Marvel NOW's Avengers" however, imo, it is still very little in comparison to other Spider-Charactors like Miles, Gwen and Silk.
I highly doubt that.

Bendis is a fan of Spider-Man, and that includes Peter Parker. He wrote the character for almost 200 issues, keep in mind, and made him a member of the Avengers.

So this isn't Bendis showing "favouritism." He has control over Miles, so he will use that Spider-Man. However, if he ever took the writing reigns over for Peter Parker, I'm fairly confident he'd throw his everything into that as well. If he hasn't done so already, as I theorized that the Spider-Man in the vision with Cap isn't Miles, but Peter.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by NickMB » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:02 pm

RDMacQ wrote:
Cheesedique wrote: Yeah, at first people were (and still are) chalking DC's Rebirth success up to the returnability factor of the issues, but I don't think they can keep denying anymore that Rebirth has really gained traction with readers.
Yeah, while I think that returnability was a factor in initial sales, I don't think it can be attributed to JUST that. I mean, there are tricks and gimmicks one can use to boost up sales- of which Marvel often uses themselves- but the continued sales success cannot be attributed to that alone. I think the returnability did help to give retailers and fans confidence in said material, since it essentially was an unspoken guarantee that "You will like these books." But since we haven't heard of mass returns, it shows that such a tactic was sound, and offering retailers the option to return unsold copies actually helps the industry, and isn't a detriment to it.
In fairness, returns aren't documented anywhere and it's hardly in DC's interest to disclose them. There's definitely been a drop post-returnability, especially in the sales of books without Batman in them - then again, that does kinda reflect what I've seen of reader reactions - the Batbooks do seem to be getting the best reception, along with Tomasi's Superman and Rucka's Wonder Woman. And even if Rebirth hasn't enabled other DC books to compete with Batman, it's definitely given them a substantial boost on New 52 sales.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Cheesedique » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:23 pm

NickMB wrote:
RDMacQ wrote:
Cheesedique wrote: Yeah, at first people were (and still are) chalking DC's Rebirth success up to the returnability factor of the issues, but I don't think they can keep denying anymore that Rebirth has really gained traction with readers.
Yeah, while I think that returnability was a factor in initial sales, I don't think it can be attributed to JUST that. I mean, there are tricks and gimmicks one can use to boost up sales- of which Marvel often uses themselves- but the continued sales success cannot be attributed to that alone. I think the returnability did help to give retailers and fans confidence in said material, since it essentially was an unspoken guarantee that "You will like these books." But since we haven't heard of mass returns, it shows that such a tactic was sound, and offering retailers the option to return unsold copies actually helps the industry, and isn't a detriment to it.
In fairness, returns aren't documented anywhere and it's hardly in DC's interest to disclose them. There's definitely been a drop post-returnability, especially in the sales of books without Batman in them - then again, that does kinda reflect what I've seen of reader reactions - the Batbooks do seem to be getting the best reception, along with Tomasi's Superman and Rucka's Wonder Woman. And even if Rebirth hasn't enabled other DC books to compete with Batman, it's definitely given them a substantial boost on New 52 sales.
Yeah, but you also have Justice League, Suicide Sqaud and Flash outselling most of Marvel's titles. That's significant.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by RDMacQ » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:42 pm

NickMB wrote: In fairness, returns aren't documented anywhere and it's hardly in DC's interest to disclose them. There's definitely been a drop post-returnability, especially in the sales of books without Batman in them - then again, that does kinda reflect what I've seen of reader reactions - the Batbooks do seem to be getting the best reception, along with Tomasi's Superman and Rucka's Wonder Woman. And even if Rebirth hasn't enabled other DC books to compete with Batman, it's definitely given them a substantial boost on New 52 sales.
But we haven't heard anything regarding retailers having to return mass quantities of unsold books. You'd think that a site like Bleeding Cool would be all over that. Instead, we have reports of Marvel sending out additional copies of comics that were not ordered in order to shore up their market share, which quickly go into the dollar bin.

The returnability did have a factor in those initial sales. But, as with anything, it likely wasn't the only factor and the additional sales boost that DC got shows that there was a lot more going on than just allowing the books to be returned.
Cheesedique wrote:Yeah, but you also have Justice League, Suicide Sqaud and Flash outselling most of Marvel's titles. That's significant.
Which causes an interesting debate. Often the excuse is used that these books are getting a boost due to the fact that they have movies coming out. Justice League is debuting next year. Suicide Squad just had a film come out. The Flash is one of the top shows on the CW.

But then you look at other books. Wonder Woman also has a movie coming out. Arrow has been on the air longer than the Flash, but it doesn't have the same boost. And it's not as if either Cap, Iron Man or Spider-Man didn't have movies coming out this year.

So it's one of those things that you can reasonably conclude that, while those mainstream ventures may cause a bit of a boost, it's not a long term thing, and certainly not to the point that we are seeing.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Spideydude » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:04 am

stillanerd wrote:Finally was able to finish my review for Amazing Spider-Man #22. And if there's a theme I have for it, it's that maybe "Ben Reilly" (or rather Ben27 as I see he's being called now) really was better off dead and should've stayed that way. Not because the answers we get, but because how this comic gives us those answers.

Stillanerd Reviews: Amazing Spider-Man (2015) #22

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Post by Spideydude » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:09 am

RDMacQ wrote:
NickMB wrote: In fairness, returns aren't documented anywhere and it's hardly in DC's interest to disclose them. There's definitely been a drop post-returnability, especially in the sales of books without Batman in them - then again, that does kinda reflect what I've seen of reader reactions - the Batbooks do seem to be getting the best reception, along with Tomasi's Superman and Rucka's Wonder Woman. And even if Rebirth hasn't enabled other DC books to compete with Batman, it's definitely given them a substantial boost on New 52 sales.
But we haven't heard anything regarding retailers having to return mass quantities of unsold books. You'd think that a site like Bleeding Cool would be all over that. Instead, we have reports of Marvel sending out additional copies of comics that were not ordered in order to shore up their market share, which quickly go into the dollar bin.

The returnability did have a factor in those initial sales. But, as with anything, it likely wasn't the only factor and the additional sales boost that DC got shows that there was a lot more going on than just allowing the books to be returned.
Cheesedique wrote:Yeah, but you also have Justice League, Suicide Sqaud and Flash outselling most of Marvel's titles. That's significant.
Which causes an interesting debate. Often the excuse is used that these books are getting a boost due to the fact that they have movies coming out. Justice League is debuting next year. Suicide Squad just had a film come out. The Flash is one of the top shows on the CW.

But then you look at other books. Wonder Woman also has a movie coming out. Arrow has been on the air longer than the Flash, but it doesn't have the same boost. And it's not as if either Cap, Iron Man or Spider-Man didn't have movies coming out this year.

So it's one of those things that you can reasonably conclude that, while those mainstream ventures may cause a bit of a boost, it's not a long term thing, and certainly not to the point that we are seeing.
I think we need to dispel the notion that more mainstream exposure= more sales for comics.

Spider-Man had 5 movies that grossed over 4 billion dollars.

It hasn't translated in sustained sales. Neither has the MCU= sales on comics. Comics are about where they were in terms of Print Sales that we saw in Order Estimates 5 to 10 years ago.
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