The Current Issue discussion thread.

Discuss Spidey's comics, or any other comics that you like.

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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Masked Guy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 pm

Cheesedique wrote:I'm good. Don't think I care to ever read another slott comic.


Can't say I blame you at this point.

Frontier wrote:Wow, I wasn't expecting much but this sounds pretty bad.

Norman deserves so much better. At least he's got Josh Keaton in the new Spider-Man cartoon...


I actually came pretty close to giving this issue a "F" for being so pointless, but settled on a "D-" for ultimately being harmless (if awful) filler. And yes, Norman does deserve far better than he has gotten in years. I'm one of those people who thinks it was a bad move to erase his knowledge of Spider-Man's secret identity. Now the character just seems to be flailing around with no real direction (like much of Dan Slott's work these past several years).

RDMacQ wrote:I wonder if the reason it's so bad was because it really couldn't tie into anything.

Like, this comic really doesn't set anything new in motion for Norman. It's just about him going "Hey, I can maybe get the Goblin back." That could go in a thousand different directions.

I wonder if perhaps the reason they had it be a nothing story was because they didn't know what the "Road to 800" was going to be, but they still needed a comic to fill in the gap in September.


It wouldn't surprise me if this was the case. After all, this did feel very much like a filler issue (and not an enjoyable one).
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby RDMacQ » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:55 pm

Masked Guy wrote: It wouldn't surprise me if this was the case. After all, this did feel very much like a filler issue (and not an enjoyable one).


I really wouldn't be surprised if this was something that was made up last minute to give some tangential connection to the "Spider-Man Event of 2018." I think that Marvel Legacy pretty much threw out all of Dan Slott's plans for the series, especially if he's only going to be on the title till #800.

Especially since the last time we left Norman, his face was all messed up and apparently couldn't be returned to normal since he changed it so much. Now it's all fine. What gives?

This may be less "This is a thread that will lead into next years story" and more "Get Norman back to a workable normal so we can reset his factory settings next year, and do it so that it ties into the painting Alex Ross did for us."

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if the cover came first, and Slott had to rewrite his story around that. And maybe add in something to do with magic because "Reasons."
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Andrew C » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:36 am

Send Norman to Las Vegas so Ben Reilly can beat the crap out of him for killing him during 'Revelations.'
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby NickMB » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:37 am

Read Scarlet Spider #7. Eh. Continued last month's pattern of feeling like the book finally has some direction, but still being pretty sluggish about getting there. A cosmic being explaining the main character's story arc to us (an arc which hasn't really come through that strongly in his actions tbh) seems to fall a bit on the wrong side of show-don't-tell but maybe the series needed it at this stage. Looking forward to the Slingers turning up next issue, although I kinda wish I didn't already know it's another five-part arc. Get a move on.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Vaegrin » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:50 pm

Seems like some people (though not many on this site) really liked #32. I suppose that an issue devoted to exploring Norman Osborn's psyche will either appeal to you or not. I am probably in the minority for finding this sort of thing unappealing as a rule, even when done well. I do appreciate complex villains with realistic motivations, but beyond that I have no real fascination with villains.

I am particularly averse to stories that elevate a villain as possessing a vast and incomparable greatness or strength of character. I am not saying it is impossible for me to enjoy such a story, and a good villain probably should have at least some admirable or relatable qualities. But I tend not to appreciate stories in which the villain is the richest and most impressive character. I want to admire the hero, not the villain.

To put it simply, I would rather see Norman Osborn get punched in the face than spend twenty pages reading about how great he is.

It seems to me that there has been a trend for a long time towards making villains more interesting, and even more admirable in some ways, than heroes. It makes sense that a great villain ought to be a powerful threat in order to heighten the challenge that the hero must overcome, but often these stories go beyond that, to the point that the villain outshines the hero altogether. Have superheroes become so boring, so stagnant, that the only way to tell interesting superhero stories is to make the stories about the villains?
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby RDMacQ » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:25 pm

Vaegrin wrote:Seems like some people (though not many on this site) really liked #32. I suppose that an issue devoted to exploring Norman Osborn's psyche will either appeal to you or not. I am probably in the minority for finding this sort of thing unappealing as a rule, even when done well. I do appreciate complex villains with realistic motivations, but beyond that I have no real fascination with villains.

I am particularly averse to stories that elevate a villain as possessing a vast and incomparable greatness or strength of character. I am not saying it is impossible for me to enjoy such a story, and a good villain probably should have at least some admirable or relatable qualities. But I tend not to appreciate stories in which the villain is the richest and most impressive character. I want to admire the hero, not the villain.

To put it simply, I would rather see Norman Osborn get punched in the face than spend twenty pages reading about how great he is.

It seems to me that there has been a trend for a long time towards making villains more interesting, and even more admirable in some ways, than heroes. It makes sense that a great villain ought to be a powerful threat in order to heighten the challenge that the hero must overcome, but often these stories go beyond that, to the point that the villain outshines the hero altogether. Have superheroes become so boring, so stagnant, that the only way to tell interesting superhero stories is to make the stories about the villains?


Not to mention, this sounds a lot like "No One Dies"- a nothing concept that is built up to be important, but isn't really all that compelling or changes the narrative all that much.

Norman needs the Goblin to "Have an edge?" Uh, why? He's never won when he's had the Goblin on his side. Lest we forget, he lost "Goblin Nation." And he seemed no worse for wear afterwards, what with his massive criminal empire he was able to build up.

Not to mention that if this is the story that is supposed to "Set up" the big Spider-Man event of 2018 as well as be the storyline that leads into ASM #800, it's pretty lackluster since I doubt that another go-around of "Spider-Man vs The Green Goblin" is going to really be the thing that draws lapsed fans back to the book.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Timmyb52 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:55 pm

Andrew C wrote:Send Norman to Las Vegas so Ben Reilly can beat the crap out of him for killing him during 'Revelations.'


Now that...would make for some great fun and one great issue of Scarlet Spider!
:D
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby stillanerd » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:54 am

Well, I thought the latest issue of ASM was pretty decent, certainly one of the better issues of the current volume. Of course, it didn't have much new to say about Norman Osborn, and the ending twist can feel like a let down. Other than that, I think it's not half bad.

Stillanerd Reviews: Amazing Spider-Man vol. 4 #32 review
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby RDMacQ » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:24 pm

stillanerd wrote:Well, I thought the latest issue of ASM was pretty decent, certainly one of the better issues of the current volume. Of course, it didn't have much new to say about Norman Osborn, and the ending twist can feel like a let down. Other than that, I think it's not half bad.

Stillanerd Reviews: Amazing Spider-Man vol. 4 #32 review


The issue with this "Revelation" is that it largely has the same problems that Peter's "No One Dies" mantra caused for his character. If you'll also remember, that story was also preceded by a mind-screw of a story that was also well received upon first viewing, but quickly fell out of people's minds as time went on. This ultimately changes nothing. It tells us nothing. And, ultimately, it is self defeating.

Norman "Needs" the Goblin? Well, he didn't before. He certainly didn't "Need" the Goblin to amass his expansive criminal empire that Peter went to war with during "The Osborn Identity." The Goblin gives Norman "An Edge?" No, no it doesn't. Norman doesn't have the best track record against Spider-Man. He lost to him numerous times while insane as the Goblin. So I don't see why he feels the need to get "The Goblin" back when it's usually been depicted as a detriment, rather than a benefit.

Not to mention, how much do you want to bet that the next time Norman shows up, he's going to be acting like the crazy old Goblin anyway? Or, more like the Joker dressed up as the Goblin, as that is how Slott has treated the character.

This issue seems to not really be catching on with people, despite the fact that people can admit that its' a good story, because it ultimately does nothing of importance. Norman's "Revelation" isn't all that stunning. He doesn't actually "Gain and edge," and once again he is denied the very thing that helped him stand out against Spider-Man's other rogues- namely the knowledge of Peter's dual identity, which ultimately undermines the importance of his most notable act against Spider-Man. Which also feeds into Slott's insistence in making Doctor Octopus Spider-Man's "Ultimate" nemesis, by "allowing" Doc Ock- and Doc Ock alone- to have knowledge of Peter's dual identity, but no other villain, despite the fact that other villains have made better use of such knowledge in their stories. Let's not forget that even in this story that is supposed to be about Norman Osborn, he still couldn't avoid having someone praise his favorite supervillain, albeit indirectly.

All in all, the lackluster reception shows the real problem with the series at this time, in that the book isn't really willing to take real chances any longer that are meaningful and would actually drive the narrative forward. Not changes of substance,that actually deal with characters and their personalities. Norman relearning Peter's identity would be a real game changer. But that's not the story Slott wants to tell, because he's not interested in those smaller stories. Even character driven pieces like this are supposed to set up "Bigger" stories, that just end up feeling hollow and lacking emotion, heart and depth.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Masked Guy » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:23 pm

stillanerd wrote:Well, I thought the latest issue of ASM was pretty decent, certainly one of the better issues of the current volume. Of course, it didn't have much new to say about Norman Osborn, and the ending twist can feel like a let down. Other than that, I think it's not half bad.

Stillanerd Reviews: Amazing Spider-Man vol. 4 #32 review


I think you're being way too kind to this issue, Mike. I actually think it's one of the worst installments of the current volume (no small feat) with few to no redeeming qualities. I've already explained why in a previous post on this thread, but needless to say, I didn't like this issue very much. I respect your opinion though.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Spider-Padre » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:11 pm

Osborn boasted he would be much more dangerous sane -- which I actually thought made some sense. So now they're throwing that away.

Wouldn't a sane Goblin be ultra-dangerous? I thought it could be entertaining for Norman to build a Goblin corporation. But instead it looks like he just wants to go back to flying around, chucking pumpkin bombs. This is a guy who had real power in the government, for a while.

Q: So he has zero adaptoid abilities anymore, I gather.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Cheesedique » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:08 pm

Spider-Padre wrote:Osborn boasted he would be much more dangerous sane -- which I actually thought made some sense. So now they're throwing that away.

Wouldn't a sane Goblin be ultra-dangerous? I thought it could be entertaining for Norman to build a Goblin corporation. But instead it looks like he just wants to go back to flying around, chucking pumpkin bombs. This is a guy who had real power in the government, for a while.

Q: So he has zero adaptoid abilities anymore, I gather.


Well, we already had a sane Goblin in Kingsley's Hobgoblin.

Increasingly, they had Norman take over all of Kingsley's shtick, leaving Roddy to be a lame mashup of Taskmaster and Deathstroke pre-#700.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby RDMacQ » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:50 pm

Cheesedique wrote:
Spider-Padre wrote:Osborn boasted he would be much more dangerous sane -- which I actually thought made some sense. So now they're throwing that away.

Wouldn't a sane Goblin be ultra-dangerous? I thought it could be entertaining for Norman to build a Goblin corporation. But instead it looks like he just wants to go back to flying around, chucking pumpkin bombs. This is a guy who had real power in the government, for a while.

Q: So he has zero adaptoid abilities anymore, I gather.


Well, we already had a sane Goblin in Kingsley's Hobgoblin.

Increasingly, they had Norman take over all of Kingsley's shtick, leaving Roddy to be a lame mashup of Taskmaster and Deathstroke pre-#700.


Heck, we already had a sane Norman back in the 60's and 70's!

Norman was never "Insane." He never had a "Split" personality. He never regarded himself and the Goblin as two distinct identities.

Norman Osborn was sane. He wasn't a lunatic with multiple personalities. He simply received "Amnesia" when he fought Spider-Man that conveniently removed all memory of his life as a Goblin and Spider-Man's true identity. It was only later adaptations that implemented this "Norman and the Green Goblin were two separate personas" status. Much like how Gwen Stacy became a "Science Wiz" due to later adaptations of her character.
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby MRstarkiller360 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:52 am

So I decided to read the new ASM book to see if it is good or not and I have to say that I'm glad I don't buy these books anymore!
Why ?
Well because when I buy a book about Spider-Man I would expect to Spider-Man and not about Norman Osborn middle age crisis on whether he needs the goblin serum to be insane again ?
Also, yet another book where Slott finds a way for the bad guy to beat and humiliate Peter Parker. Is this a thing Slott like to do when he is alone ?

The artwork is honestly terrible especially when you consider the fact that Norman looks old instead of deformed.

Masked Guy wrote:I just finished Personal Demon (Amazing vol. 4 #32) and...ugh. What was that?

So Norman Osborn travels to the mountains, studies the mystic arts, summons Spider-Man, defeats him, transforms him into an actual spider, crushes him and then turns against his masters...only for it to all have been a hallucination. But wait, his hallucination taught him something the readers already know: that his Goblin persona has always been inside him and he doesn't need the formula to be The Green Goblin! *slow clap*

All joking aside, this issue was a complete slog. Not only did it tell us something that many of us were probably already painfully aware of, but the issue itself was just boring. The "training" was completely glossed over and Norman's battle with "Spider-Man" (hallucination or not) was lame and thoroughly unsatisfying. Worst of all, the whole "mystic arts" angle felt really, really out of place for a man of science like Norman and only served to remind me of The Gathering of Five...which is a bad thing. Why would you want to remind anyone of that train wreck? Worst of all, we didn't learn anything new about Norman. This issue was the perfect opportunity to really explore his psyche, but instead we're simply beaten over the head with one particular fact: Norman Osborn is crazy. How novel.

Greg Smallwood's art was decent, but it can't save such a dull and pointless issue. Honestly, I think this is one of Dan Slott's worst efforts to date. And that, my friends, is saying something.

GRADE: D-


Couldn't have said better myself! This was a filler issue that Slott wanted to pad his run even longer!
GRADE : D- as well!

Spider-Padre wrote:Osborn boasted he would be much more dangerous sane -- which I actually thought made some sense. So now they're throwing that away.

Wouldn't a sane Goblin be ultra-dangerous? I thought it could be entertaining for Norman to build a Goblin corporation. But instead it looks like he just wants to go back to flying around, chucking pumpkin bombs. This is a guy who had real power in the government, for a while.

Q: So he has zero adaptoid abilities anymore, I gather.


Yeah, why would he want to be insane again when he could be more effective being sane ?
He became as powerfull as the president of the USA, nearly defeated the Avengers and more. So why would he want to be insane again ? Just so he can use the goblin serum and be the green goblin again ?
Wasn't the Green Goblin, an alter ego like Spider-Man that Norman used and not a split personality ?
For a guy who boast about knowing everything about Spider-Man shouldn't he also know this about Norman ?

Cheesedique wrote:Well, we already had a sane Goblin in Kingsley's Hobgoblin.

Increasingly, they had Norman take over all of Kingsley's shtick, leaving Roddy to be a lame mashup of Taskmaster and Deathstroke pre-#700.


Which begs the question : Why are we not using the Hob Goblin instead of Norman ?
Answer : Because Marvel needs villains for other books.
And the last time we saw Kingsley was in Spider-Woman! And because the Green Goblin is a bigger name than the Hob Goblin so Slott used this to prop himself up!
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Re: The Current Issue discussion thread.

Postby Cheesedique » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:51 am

Just read Renew Your Vows #11.

Got to say, even without Conway writing, this book is still pretty damn solid. Stegman is actually doing a rather good job with the scripting himself.

LIkewise, though they keep rotating in and out artists we've never heard of, the art remains mostly solid and they've made a kind of "house style" for this book that works.

Always good to see Peter cut loose when his family is threatened.

Can't say I like the looks of the "Iron-Green Goblin" being teased for next issue.

Still the best Spider-Man book Marvel is publishing, or have for years, full stop.
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