Amazing Spidey # 691 SPOILERS

[Hobo-Goblin]

Well, I've only been following this book sporadically, but today's issue...

BIG SPOILERS for surprise ending...

Thanks, Dan Slott. I forgive you now that you've undone the thing that made me decide to not regularly pick up the book in the first place.

Roderick Kingsley's back, and he's NOT happy...

(What's with the Deathstroke the Terminator look, though?)

[stillanerd]

Might as well post the recap:

The issue starts off with Spidey facing down the Lizard people from last issue, only to his surprise, they aren't attacking any one. Sajani Jaffrey explains to Spidey that the reason they aren't is because humans and lizards "are not natural enemies." Spidey then hears gunshots and swings towards the source to find Carlie Cooper, firing warning shots at the Lizard-fied Max Modell, Grady Scraps and Bella Fishbach only they aren't attacking her either (in fact, Grady and Bella are starting to make out). Spidey repeats what Sajani told him about humans and lizards and when Carlie states why then would the Lizard have attacked him, Spidey concludes that it may not be linked to Connor's reptilian persona but to Connors himself, that the Lizard's aggression and hatred is rooted in resentment over losing his arm, then his wife, and finally his son. At that moment, Connors-Lizard comes out of the supply closet and injects himself with his new formula. Spidey webs him up and Spidey tells Carlie he has to get the Lizard outside before he fully transforms and thus have complete control over the other Horizon-Lizard people. He then tells Carlie to figure out a way to change the rest of them back, and Carlie sees the Lizard syringe on the floor and figures out what to do.

Spidey goes back to the lobby with Connors-Lizard and throws him towards the steel lockdown doors, managing to break a hole through them to shove Connors-Lizard through. Uatu Jackson states he can help, but Spidey tells him no, and Connors-Lizard once again sees Uatu as Billy, calling out his name. After Spidey and Connors-Lizard go through the hole, Spidey tells them all to stay put and bends as much of the steel opening closed as he can, before he see Connors-Lizard fully transformed, now in a completely different Lizard form than he was before and apparently stronger than ever. The Lizard then tells Spidey this is his "final form" and states how much he's had to sacrifice because of him.

Back at Horizon, Hector tries to tell Carlie what happened was not Horizon's fault, but Carlie brushes that off, showing them the sample of Connor's formula, asking if there's any way to reverse engineer it. Sajani says they may be and leads them all to Morbius' lab (the Modell lizard also starts affectionately rubbing up against Hector as he's unlocking the door codes) and inside, Uatu says they have doses of Morbius' cure and one of the harpoon delivery systems, giving him an idea.

Back outside, the Lizard attacks Spidey, saying how even though he always stronger and faster, he was wrong in thinking he was better because he never realized all the sensations humans get to enjoy that have no been taken away from him, thus making him hate Spidey humans even more. As he prepares to attack and feast on a random woman, he hesitates when he sees her as Martha. This makes Spidey attack the Lizard again, but once again the Lizard gets the upper hand, knocking him back towards the Horizon Labs building. Uatu then comes out of the hole in the side of building and hands Spidey the harpoon with the cure. As Spidey charges the Lizard, he realizes that he has to inject the formula into his brain, specifically the reptilian portion, and worries that it could kill him. And watching overhead is Julia Carpenter, saying to herself whether Peter will choose to "forever cut another skein from the Web of Life." Spidey thinks to himself how he had to sacrifice Silver Sable to save billions but he can't "risk the life of a monster" to save dozen; and with that, Spidey makes his decision. But as he does so, the Lizard swats him away but after he does so, he sees every adult as Martha and every child as Billy, and finally sees Spidey as Doctor Connors. Spidey realizes what is going on and realizes that, deep down, a part of the Lizard wants Spidey to end this, who never wished the Lizard had been brought into the world. And with that, Spidey stabs the harpoon into the Lizards head. And right away, Spidey panics, thinking he's killed him, as the Lizard sinks to the ground. However, the Lizard has not changed back into Connors. Spidey webs the Lizard up and SHIELD arrives to cart him to the Raft.

Spidey tells us in narration that the Lizard survived and so, in a fresh Spidey costume, goes to Rykers to see if he's all right. He passes by Doc Ock and Morbius, saying how he never wants to come back here again and how can the "scum he's locked up can live with themselves with all the blood they must have on their hands." Moribus tries to talk to Spidey, asking him if Sajani is all right, but Spidey just ignores him, saying how the people locked up mean nothing to him. He then sees the Lizard, eating rats. Satisfied that the Lizard is alive and that it's a weight off his conscience, Spidey leaves. What he doesn't realize, however, is that it's no longer the Lizard--it's Dr. Connors, now trapped in his Lizard form. And Dr. Connors believes this is fitting punishment for what he has done.

Back at Horizon Labs, things are getting back to normal, and they've decided that, for the annual softball game, they'll have people who turned into lizards go up against those who turned into spiders during spider-island. Grady and Bella, after having made out as lizards, officially become a couple. Sajani notes how both Peter is absent, while Modell notices Tiberius Stone is missing as well. Then Modell leads Hector away, under the pretext of wanting him to check his body for extra scales, when in fact he wants to show him how his own lab has been broken into. Modell states how something very valuable is missing, and needs to know who took it.

We then cut over to Shadowland, where Stone is making the finishing touches on the Spider-Sense jammers, telling Kingpin they'll have dozens of them up and running all around Shadowland and throughout the city. Kingpin then states that he can find a nice place for Stone in the organization, while Phil Urich-Hobgoblin gets jealous, thinking to himself he may have to do something about Stone.

Meanwhile, Julia Carpenter foresees this going on, but notes that something isn't quite right, as all the threads in the Web of Life, every possible future, is inexplicably gone. Suddenly, a new figure emerges at the center of the web, and we see a guy dressed in black and red like the Taranula, only with the colors reversed, with a white mustache and goatee. We then cut over to this figures location in "Delvadia, the drug capital of South America" where this mysterious figure is gunning down various drug lords, telling them in Spanish that this territory now belongs to "Devil-Spider." One of Devil-Spider's henchmen approaches him with news from America, telling him about his brother--The Hobgoblin. Devil-Spider says how it's not time yet, but the henchmen tells Blood-Spider that his brother--Daniel Kingsley--never became the Hobgoblin and has been dead for some time. Yep, as stated above, you guys know who the Devil-Spider must be: Roderick Kingsley, the original Hobgoblin! Roderick realizes a patsy has taken his brother's place, and that while its a good con (one he invented) he can't let it go unanswered. The end.

[Donomark]

Review posted. What do you guys think? Post your comments both here and under the review!

[Thrawn]

I posted this on the front page and I'll post it here - killing Daniel Kingsley was a mistake and was done very badly.

Daniel Kingsley is as much a part of the Hobgoblin Legacy as Harry is to the Green Goblin's. Spider-Girl showed beyond perfectly how both Roderick and Daniel should be utilized in the modern day Marvel Universe. Daniel has value as a character is it was awful storytelling to just kill him off in such a poor manner like that.

OMD/BND and Dan Slott fail again in my opinion.

[Hobo-Goblin]

I posted this on the front page and I'll post it here - killing Daniel Kingsley was a mistake and was done very badly.

Daniel Kingsley is as much a part of the Hobgoblin Legacy as Harry is to the Green Goblin's. Spider-Girl showed beyond perfectly how both Roderick and Daniel should be utilized in the modern day Marvel Universe. Daniel has value as a character is it was awful storytelling to just kill him off in such a poor manner like that.

OMD/BND and Dan Slott fail again in my opinion.

Wha? Daniel was essential to Roderick's plans, but he was never anything more than a pawn. He's certainly not on the same level as Harry Osborn, for that matter.

If Daniel had to be sacrificed to get the REAL Hobgoblin back, then I'd say that's a worthy trade.

After all, everyone KNOWS now what Kingsley's game is and how he used his brother. How much more useful could Daniel have been? Clearly he was being used to maneuver someone close to the Kingpin. I'd imagine Roderick had Daniel properly Winkler Device'd and perhaps altered on a genetic level to further close the gap between them so as to fool the Kingpin. Otherwise, the Kingpin's a moron for not suspecting some kind of foul play.

[Enigma_2099]

Is Roderick gonna make Phil give back his clothes?

[Thrawn]

Wha? Daniel was essential to Roderick's plans, but he was never anything more than a pawn.

That was his role in the stories; correct. He was also Roderick's brother, and despite Roderick's complete ability to sacrifice him if necessary, never did.

He's certainly not on the same level as Harry Osborn, for that matter.

I believe you're wrong. What I said was:

Daniel Kingsley is as much a part of the Hobgoblin Legacy as Harry is to the Green Goblin's.

I stand by that assertion. The two Kingsley brothers, impersonating one another, later in the various continuities betraying one another, is very much a key part of the Hobgoblin Legacy. Daniel was never more than a pawn in Roderick's schemes, but he was still a big part of the Hobgoblin Legacy to me as a fan.

I didn't say, or mean to imply, that Daniel was as important to Spider-Man's Legacy as a whole, but he is as important to the Hobgoblin's Legacy as Harry is to the Green Goblin's in my opinion.

If Daniel had to be sacrificed to get the REAL Hobgoblin back, then I'd say that's a worthy trade.

He didn't have to be, so it's not a worthy trade. Simply wasteful storytelling at best, bad storytelling at worst.

After all, everyone KNOWS now what Kingsley's game is and how he used his brother. How much more useful could Daniel have been?

Plenty. I've read Spider-Girl and Daniel was used quite effectively in that. He could have easily been used similarly in the modern Marvel U.

That's my opinion as a fan.

[Hobo-Goblin]

Okay, I'll grant you that Daniel might be intrinsically important to Roderick's Hobgoblin, but I'd say Macendale, even being the loser and failure he was, was more influential to the Hobgoblin's legacy than Daniel was (negatively, or otherwise).

I think Slott was going for the more "surprising" route with his plan here. If he wanted to make Phil the Hobgoblin and not kill Daniel, he could have just had Roderick use Phil as yet another dupe. While that is Roderick's M.O., from a story perspective it's a bit overdone now.

By killing Daniel, Slott got the fans more outraged and/or interested, because while we may have suspected, we didn't know for sure that he wasn't killing the original Hobgoblin off for good. And tweaking the fans seems to be Marvel's M.O. nowadays.

[NickMB]

And tweaking the fans seems to be Marvel's M.O. nowadays.

"Nowadays"? The entire original Hobgoblin saga was one big session of tweaking the fans over who he was. "He's Flash Thompson!" "No, he's Ned Leeds!" [WAIT TWENTY YEARS] "No, he's Roderick Kingsley!" Doing plot twists and fake-outs has been with Marvel for decades. People just seem to be taking it as a personal insult for some reason "nowadays".

[Thrawn]

Okay, I'll grant you that Daniel might be intrinsically important to Roderick's Hobgoblin, but I'd say Macendale, even being the loser and failure he was, was more influential to the Hobgoblin's legacy than Daniel was (negatively, or otherwise).

I would agree that Macendale was bigger influence on the Hobgoblin Legacy than Daniel; negatively I might add. True, you could have told some more stories with Macendale returning to the Jack-O-Lantern identity, but he has become a joke, and the fans really wanted to see a true Goblin show him how it was done. So I do think when Roderick was finally brought back, killing Macendale was the right choice for the story. Killing Daniel takes away from the Kingsley brothers dynamic in my mind.

I think Slott was going for the more "surprising" route with his plan here.

Perhaps, except he utterly failed when everyone called that Roderick more than likely be back since it was an off panel death.

If he wanted to make Phil the Hobgoblin and not kill Daniel, he could have just had Roderick use Phil as yet another dupe.

That would have been the correct way to go. As is, killing Daniel was an unnecessary if all they wanted to do was make Phil the next Hobgoblin.

While that is Roderick's M.O., from a story perspective it's a bit overdone now.

I'd probably agree.

[Hobo-Goblin]

And tweaking the fans seems to be Marvel's M.O. nowadays.

"Nowadays"? The entire original Hobgoblin saga was one big session of tweaking the fans over who he was. "He's Flash Thompson!" "No, he's Ned Leeds!" [WAIT TWENTY YEARS] "No, he's Roderick Kingsley!" Doing plot twists and fake-outs has been with Marvel for decades. People just seem to be taking it as a personal insult for some reason "nowadays".

The way I read it, that was mostly to keep sales up and also because every new writer had a new plan for the Hobgoblin's secret ID.

And there's no two ways about it; today's Marvel is a lot more blatant in regards to "we did this to purposely annoy the fans". SInce the advent of the internet, one gets the feeling that is actually the PLAN in regards to most things.

[FSUSpiderFan]

If Daniel had to be sacrificed to get the REAL Hobgoblin back, then I'd say that's a worthy trade.

Be careful what you wish for. After Slott plays with Roderick for a while, you may pine for the days when he was absent from the books.

[NickMB]

And tweaking the fans seems to be Marvel's M.O. nowadays.

"Nowadays"? The entire original Hobgoblin saga was one big session of tweaking the fans over who he was. "He's Flash Thompson!" "No, he's Ned Leeds!" [WAIT TWENTY YEARS] "No, he's Roderick Kingsley!" Doing plot twists and fake-outs has been with Marvel for decades. People just seem to be taking it as a personal insult for some reason "nowadays".

The way I read it, that was mostly to keep sales up and also because every new writer had a new plan for the Hobgoblin's secret ID.

And there's no two ways about it; today's Marvel is a lot more blatant in regards to "we did this to purposely annoy the fans". SInce the advent of the internet, one gets the feeling that is actually the PLAN in regards to most things.

They want to get a reaction, because that in turn will get sales up. It's the same thing as it always was, it's just that now you have a stronger idea of the people behind the comics thanks to their online presences. They want to make big bold moves because that way people might react and care and buy comics.

[Mr. Noodle]

I don't think they make any distinction between making fans angry and making them excited. I think they think it's the same thing; and they seem to find it easier to make fans angry.

[dornwolf]

I don't think they make any distinction between making fans angry and making them excited. I think they think it's the same thing; and they seem to find it easier to make fans angry.

Well you know what they say, "Even bad publicity is good publicity"