Friendly Fire Fight Club #240 - 'Reckoning of the RING!'

[George Berryman]

"Make way and hide your daughters... Shang Chi is in the hizzouse, bitches!"

"Our third fight this weekend breaks the seal on that aging keg of 'Epic' we had in the back. The one we were saving for a rainy day. Now - it might rain blood."

"Recently gregxb threw out a challenge at Berserkfury819, who accepted. And proving he can still bring the thunder, Berserkfury819 delivered a lighting bolt! Here he is for the second time this season, the Marvel God of Thunder, THOR!"



"With his selection in this fight Thor is now on the Two & Through list for season three. Thanks for the the bruises, Thunderer! And as we must always remind Fight Clubbers what Mjolnir has been limited to due to the Power Cap Rule of 2011:"

Transformation/Worthiness Enchantment
Mystical Link to Thor
Weather Control
Undead Lethality
Negation of Mystic Energy
Energy Sensing, Absorption & Redirection
Flight
Immunity to Other Forces

"Going with the Lord of the Rings motif started with our previous fight gregxb dove into the pages of epic fantasy and produced a Dark Lord from his hat. We haven't seen him since his humilating and controversial loss to Rita Repulsa in season one... here he is, SAURON!"



"Give me Liberty or give me DEATH! Put the pedal to the metal cause we're heading back to Liberty City!"



"Modeled after New York City, Liberty City serves as the dystopian city setting for the popular Grand Theft Auto IV game. Please enjoy the following informational video."



"Those, then, are your choices... a God of Thunder against a God of EVIL! Who walks away in glory? Who crawls away in defeat? DECIDE NOW!"

"For Commissioner George Berryman and everyone at Friendly Fire Fight Club, this is the Master of Kung Fu bringing the sexy back!"

[Two-Bit Specialist]

You weren't kidding. That is pretty fast.

Does Sauron have the One Ring in the Second Age? Sorry if that is a noob question. I just got into LotR.

~My Two Cents

[George Berryman]

You weren't kidding. That is pretty fast.

Does Sauron have the One Ring in the Second Age? Sorry if that is a noob question. I just got into LotR.

He does, yes, until Isildur cuts it off Sauron's hand, which defeats him in the Second Age. In the Third Age he becomes the giant fire-eye. Heh.

[Two-Bit Specialist]

Hmm... I'd like to think that Sauron equipped with the One Ring can overpower Thor... but if he can so easily lose it or have it wrestled away from him (especially when it happened against just a Man like Isildur) then I think Thor takes this.

[gregxb]

Okay, here we go.

First off, let's discuss the location, Liberty City. Liberty City is full of low life scumbags. Sauron, especially with the One Ring, can influence their minds to use them as pawns. He may not have his orcs, trolls, Black Numenorians, or other servants and allies, but here he can easily screw with the minds of these people and use them to create chaos. He managed to drive Denethor insane through the palantir, and seduce Saruman the White to evil through the palantir as well WITHOUT THE RING! Not to mention that while Thor is noble, his own arrogance and character flaws make it possible for Sauron to corrupt him. Especially while he wears the One Ring.

Thor is the God of Thunder, yes. But he won't have that advantage against Sauron, as Sauron has been able to manipulate the weather through his sorcery. In the books, from thousands of miles away, he practically drove the Fellowship into the Mines of Moria by sending storms to Caradhras.

With the Ring, Sauron's powers are limitless. Thor can negate and try to absorb all he wants, Sauron will keep coming, and this is if the battle is fought with just sorcery.

As a warrior, Sauron is also a powerful foe. His primary form is that of a ten to twelve foot tall Dark Lord clad in armor, wielding his mace... like Morgoth before him. Sauron was also the greatest of Morgoth's servants. While Thor does battle Fire Giants on a regular basis, Sauron fought alongside Balrogs... demons of shadow and flame, and was even more powerful than they were. There is a reason Sauron and not Gothmog (Lord of Balrogs) was Morgoth's lieutenant. He has led many wars, and fought in many battles for over thousands of years.

Since this is Sauron before the Fall of Numenor, he is also a shape shifter. When he took fair guise, he was able to fool the elves into creating the other Rings of Power. In fair guise, he was able to corrupt Numenor after voluntarily being taken prisoner by them into worshiping Morgoth and attacking Valinor (home of the gods) by sheer persuasion. But he has also been documented to take on the form of a great werewolf and vampire.

I also think it's worth mentioning that during the Second Age, at the height of his power, Sauron was even greater than Morgoth was towards the end of his own reign. Morgoth is the equivalent of Satan, so keep that in mind.

Here's a fun quote from the Silmarillion. The basic set up is that the Valar have sent a bigass lightning storm to scare the Numenoreans out of their planned invasion of Valinor.

Now the lightnings increased and slew men upon the hills, and in the fields, and in the streets of the city; and a fiery bolt smote the dome of the Temple and shore it asunder, and it was wreathed in flame. But the Temple itself was unshaken, and Sauron stood there upon the pinnacle and defied the lightning and was unharmed; and in that hour men called him a god and did all that he would.

All Sauron needs to do to win is incapacitate Thor, and the easiest way to do that is to make him lose his grip on Mjonlir. Skurge the Executioner does that on a regular basis. Mjolnir may be Thor's greatest weapon, but it's his biggest Achilles heel. Removing the Ring from Sauron is much, MUCH harder to do.

[gregxb]

You weren't kidding. That is pretty fast.

Does Sauron have the One Ring in the Second Age? Sorry if that is a noob question. I just got into LotR.

He does, yes, until Isildur cuts it off Sauron's hand, which defeats him in the Second Age. In the Third Age he becomes the giant fire-eye. Heh.

That's not how it went down anywhere except the movies.

In the books, after seven years of war, when the Last Alliance laid siege to Barad-dur, Sauron came forth and battled armies, slew many, and battled Gil-galad (the elf king) and Elendil for six straight days, he slaid Elendil, and Gil-galad was killed by the very heat from Sauron's body. Sauron was weakened, and then Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's hand.

[George Berryman]

That's not how it went down anywhere except the movies.

In the books, after seven years of war, when the Last Alliance laid siege to Barad-dur, Sauron came forth and battled armies, slew many, and battled Gil-galad (the elf king) and Elendil for six straight days, he slaid Elendil, and Gil-galad was killed by the very heat from Sauron's body. Sauron was weakened, and then Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's hand.

You're right. It was Isildur that cut the ring off Sauron's hand. Can't believe I messed that one up because I was...

He does, yes, until Isildur cuts it off Sauron's hand, which defeats him in the Second Age.

... oh.

[gregxb]

That's not how it went down anywhere except the movies.

In the books, after seven years of war, when the Last Alliance laid siege to Barad-dur, Sauron came forth and battled armies, slew many, and battled Gil-galad (the elf king) and Elendil for six straight days, he slaid Elendil, and Gil-galad was killed by the very heat from Sauron's body. Sauron was weakened, and then Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's hand.

You're right. It was Isildur that cut the ring off Sauron's hand. Can't believe I messed that one up because I was...

He does, yes, until Isildur cuts it off Sauron's hand, which defeats him in the Second Age.

... oh.

Heh, true... my bad. I guess I'm so used to explaining the differences between book and film, it's just always on.

Still... this doesn't call for death, just incapacitation. All Sauron has to do is literally knock Mjolnir from Thor's hand and then knock him out. This is a far easier task than removing the ring from Sauron's hand. Like I said, Skurge does it on a regular basis, and he is no where near as powerful as Sauron. Mortal supervillains have done this too.

[gregxb]

If Scott Summers can do this, so can Sauron.

[George Berryman]

Not Iron Man's best day! Heh!

If Scott Summers can do this, so can Sauron.

What does Sauron do for ranged attacks and how does he compensate for Thor's ranged capability? What counter does Sauron have against Thor's weather control abilities?

[Two-Bit Specialist]

If Scott Summers can do this, so can Sauron.

You do realize that this was in the earliest days of the characters? More recent examples might be more persuasive.

[gregxb]

What does Sauron do for ranged attacks and how does he compensate for Thor's ranged capability? What counter does Sauron have against Thor's weather control abilities?

Sauron has manipulated the weather in the books, he created the storm at Caradhras that forced the Fellowship to go through the Mines of Moria, and he was thousands of miles away when he did that. He sent the clouds to cover the Pellinor Fields so that his legions of orcs could fight without worrying about the sun.

And who says it has to be a ranged attack to knock Mjolnir from Thor's hand? Skurge has done this, and he's definitely not in Sauron's league. Besides, keep in mind that Sauron was also Morgoth's most powerful servant, his most dangerous servant. And Morgoth had an army of Balrogs. Sauron was more powerful than even them.

What happens if Sauron just appears before Thor as Annatar, the form he took when he fooled the elves and many others. Sauron the Fair, just to get Thor to lower his guard fast enough for him to change and disarm Thor. Sauron can do this... the Enchantress has done similar and unlike her, Sauron has no feelings for Thor that would cost him the victory.



Again, he is a shapeshifter.

[Two-Bit Specialist]

I'm temporarily switching my vote.

However, as I recall, the book was ambiguous whether Sauron or Caradhras itself called the snowstorm.

[AlgeaX]

I'm temporarily switching my vote.

However, as I recall, the book was ambiguous whether Sauron or Caradhras itself called the snowstorm.

First time poster but as a bit of a Tolkien geek I wanted to jump in. While the book is ambiguous as to the true cause of the storm, I think what's important is that none of the Fellowship doubted that Sauron could have caused the storm, not even Gandalf: Sauron's fellow Maia.

[George Berryman]

First time poster but as a bit of a Tolkien geek I wanted to jump in. While the book is ambiguous as to the true cause of the storm, I think what's important is that none of the Fellowship doubted that Sauron could have caused the storm, not even Gandalf: Sauron's fellow Maia.

Welcome to Crawl Space and the Fight Club, AlgeaX!