Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by FSUSpiderFan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:41 pm

and if your hadn't read those comments and responses you could have read the issue by now. Hop to it man! :mrgreen: [smilie=spidey_building.gif]

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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by BertoneBeatle » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:46 pm

When I read CRAWSPACE I like to be able to devote my full attention to it. These comments I skim through while I'm editing or doing other stuff
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by FSUSpiderFan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:05 pm

makes sense to me. [smilie=spidey_cheers.gif]

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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Kevin Cushing » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:23 pm

Kevin Cushing wrote:
insaneJonny wrote:Well in this issue we got a loving moment where Pete's love of MJ gives him the strength he needs to fight back and coming up you've Clone Saga III, and the board is populated by a lot of clone saga fan boys and marriage fans, hence I'm curious if you're choosing stories that play to your main audience.
Oh, so you meant to say "I can *help* but feel," then, didn't you? You said "I can't feel," which ends up with the totally opposite affect!

I'll actually address that later. Now I have to close up shop and head home!
Ok, so finally a proper answer to this. And the answer is no, I'm not just coming up with stories to play to the Crawl Space faithful, although I'm glad they do. I'm telling the stories I want to tell, the same stories I'd be telling if I were writing Amazing Spider-Man (if editorial would actually let me, which is entirely debatable). The stories I love most are deeply rooted in character history and relationships, whether it be drawing on 40 years of Spider-Man continuity or creating a new property myself and drawing on backstory I have to come up with on my own. Referencing and building on the Clone Saga comes from my own love of parts of the Clone Saga (though a lot of it was sadly pretty poorly done, there was a wealth of good ideas and some real gold in there). It was a big, huge part of Spider-Man's life that shouldn't just be swept under the rug but mined for the potential that's still there (like Kaine, for instance, who's returning in Crawl Space #13). You see a lot of reference to JMS' run in Crawl Space as well, which also comes from my own love and respect for that run. As for the MJ stuff, well, I love the marriage. And the entire reason to start doing Crawl Space was to write Spider-Man stories for a married Spider-Man, since Marvel isn't giving us any. And if I'm going to write any relationship, marriage or otherwise, I'm gonna write it. Peter's wife is the biggest part of his life outside of Spider-Man, so you'd definitely see things like him thinking about her and drawing strength from her in a fight. To me that's just realism, not fan-service. And heck, I've got a huge role in the works for Morbius, and I think I'm the only one on the board clamoring for more of him :wink: It's just my job to make you guys enjoy it as much as I do, which I think you will.

And I should also mention that I didn't just come up with these stories for Crawl Space. These first three arcs are actually modified versions of an 18-issue epic I came up with several years ago that I wanted to write in Spider-Man some day. At the time it was a trilogy of 6-issue arcs all under the title "Face of the Enemy." Spider-Man Black is an evolved version of Face of the Enemy Book 1, and is the most faithful of all of them to my original idea. One in a Million actually has its origins in Face of the Enemy Book 3, which is where Harry was going to make his return in the original story. I moved his return up considerably because of Brand New Day (since I came up with this stuff way before One More Day, and didn't expect to have to deal with the reversal and fallout from it). It made more sense to address Harry right off the bat since he'd been alive in BND. And then the Kaine story coming in #13-15 is a very modified version of Face of the Enemy Book 2. Really the only similarity left there is that Kaine is involved. I scrapped the rest of it for being derivative and already overdone.

Point is, these are all stories I would have told no matter where I was writing them and who the audience was. They're simply the best Spider-Man stories I know how to tell, because I think anyone who takes the time to read this deserves nothing less. The fact that they play well to the Crawl Spacers is mostly telling of 2 things: 1) I found just the right community to be a part of here, and 2) maybe more people love MJ and the Clone Saga than you think?
BertoneBeatle wrote:Still haven't reads the issue but I have to say Kevin that I commend for responding to EVERY comment! It's like another issue being written
Thanks man! I really, really appreciate people taking the time to give me their thoughts and reviews on the issues (it makes the whole thing worthwhile, really), and the best reward I have the ability to give is some answers and responses to what they have to say. It's not enough, but I try to do all I can do to say thank you to those that so graciously give me their time and effort.
BertoneBeatle wrote:When I read CRAWSPACE I like to be able to devote my full attention to it. These comments I skim through while I'm editing or doing other stuff
But you're gonna get spoiled!
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Spider-Girl » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:53 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NefM2gVo9mw

I'm not going to give you all of my thoughts, because I want to save them for the podcast, but way to go! Haha, and you worked in Morbius! How cool!

I am a little confused concerning Peter's call to Punisher. You make it seem like Peter called him because of his lethal means, and, since Peter obviously despises what Frank does, Peter could blame him for doing something to Simon and naively think he himself had nothing to do with it. Is that a correct reading? I also wonder, in a less obvious way, that Peter called someone with whom he does not usually/freely associate because he doesn't need the Avengers in his family business. I guess i just want you to elucidate for me what you mean by this:
PUNISHER:
Peter, you could’ve called anybody to help you find her killer.
You’re on the Avengers with Wolverine, and he’s a better natural tracker than me.
Plenty willing to kill for you, too.
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Enigma_2099 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:19 pm

Man, that cover is soul-crushing...

Looks like you're in good hands, Kevin... there ain't no way I can come close to touching that. Not even gonna bother.
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by BD » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:25 am

Wow, I'm now all caught up and it's 4 am!!!! I started reading at 1:30am. We have a podcast to record on Sunday, but I couldn't put the series down once I got into it. Great stuff, and I can't wait for issue nine.

Pros: The Cap/ Red Skull dialog was outstanding. I loved how you compared and contrasted the two. The line about how all those previous fights went down was outstanding.

The Morbius reveal. I felt like an idiot for not seeing that one coming. I mean he's whispering about blood in Peter's ear. DUH! As a reader I was like, you idiot you should have seen that coming, but I didn't. Great job sir!


Clone Sage Part Duh: I love the line from Harry about correcting something his father screwed up. Classic and I'm sure Zach wet his pants!!! LOL. Clone Saga 2 and Morbius, oh you kids of the 90s!!! LOL


Cons: Not real big on the Punisher/ Spidey team up. The two hate each other and I just dont' see him coming to his rescue after a random call from MJ. Plus how does the Punisher know who Peter is?

The Carlie/ Flash scene was awesome. The five things list was one of my favorite things, especially the great kisser line. However, the one minor quip is the "want to be my boyfriend?" Last issue she mounted him, now she's asking to be her boyfriend. If I were Flash I'd roll, or wait walk out of there. Sorry, couldn't resist it. But I guess it's not a complaint.Some girls move fast like that. I'd get the hell out of there Flashy boy!


Overall each issue has been consistent with humor, character development and action. They all get A's and I'm proud to have my sites name on the cover of your book. Now when is issue nine coming out? I can't wait to see the Carlie/ Flash wedding. Cause that girl doesn't waist anytime. LOL.
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Venomaniac » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:12 am

I loved it!

At one point I had a huge smile on my face... somehting that NEVER happens when I'm reading comics

If the world was just you would be writing ASM, and it would be incredible!

You seem to be the next JMS, and I can't wait to see what happens next!
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Kevin Cushing » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:53 pm

Ok, first off I want to thank very much all of you who've been going back through the archives and commenting on the older issues. I haven't been able to keep up with answering every one individually, but just know I've read every comment and it means the world to me. You guys are amazing!
Spider-Girl wrote:I am a little confused concerning Peter's call to Punisher. You make it seem like Peter called him because of his lethal means, and, since Peter obviously despises what Frank does, Peter could blame him for doing something to Simon and naively think he himself had nothing to do with it. Is that a correct reading? I also wonder, in a less obvious way, that Peter called someone with whom he does not usually/freely associate because he doesn't need the Avengers in his family business. I guess i just want you to elucidate for me what you mean by this
Just about everyone has asked about that now. I originally had a longer exchange between Peter and the Punisher about this, but there wasn't enough space in the issue to devote a couple more pages to it, and I really thought what I put in there made it clear enough. Obviously, it did not. So I think I'm going to add a back-up short to the Annual that will explain this association in further detail. Probably an 8-pager. It's an over-sized issue anyway, so adding a short backup should only increase its "Annual" status!
P.S. The LIghtning Strikes rocks! I first fell in love with it after hearing "What if this Storm Ends?" on In Plain Sight! I got the whole album just for The LIghtning Strikes because you can't only download that song off iTunes! *shakes fist*
My story with the song is exactly the same. It was so emotionally powerful in In Plain Sight, I had to go find it. And I love the whole album now, too!
Enigma_2099 wrote:Man, that cover is soul-crushing...

Looks like you're in good hands, Kevin... there ain't no way I can come close to touching that. Not even gonna bother.
I sure hope that doesn't mean you're done with Crawl Space covers forever. I still needs me some Enigma variants!
BD wrote:Wow, I'm now all caught up and it's 4 am!!!! I started reading at 1:30am. We have a podcast to record on Sunday, but I couldn't put the series down once I got into it. Great stuff, and I can't wait for issue nine.
Thanks, Brad! Being the Patriarch, the Stan Lee of Crawl Space comics if you will, it's pretty essential to me to keep you entertained!
The Morbius reveal. I felt like an idiot for not seeing that one coming. I mean he's whispering about blood in Peter's ear. DUH! As a reader I was like, you idiot you should have seen that coming, but I didn't. Great job sir!

Excellent to hear! Those kinds of reveals are the best, I think. When you feel like you had all the evidence in front of you, but you're still surprised. I very much prefer a reveal to illicit an "Of course!" rather than a "What the hell?"
Classic and I'm sure Zach wet his pants!!! LOL. Clone Saga 2 and Morbius, oh you kids of the 90s!!! LOL
Ya know how Matt Fraction famously has a post-it on his computer that says "Don't Suck?" I think for One in a Million I'll just put a note on mine that says "Make Zach Joiner cream his pants." If I follow that basic guideline on a clone story I can't go wrong! :lol:
Cons: Not real big on the Punisher/ Spidey team up. The two hate each other and I just dont' see him coming to his rescue after a random call from MJ. Plus how does the Punisher know who Peter is?
You'll find several answers to this throughout the thread, but as I said to Stella just above in this post, I think I'm going to explain this whole thing further in an 8-page backup in the Annual. If I didn't make it clear enough for the audience, that's on me, and it's my responsibility to fix it.
The Carlie/ Flash scene was awesome. The five things list was one of my favorite things, especially the great kisser line. However, the one minor quip is the "want to be my boyfriend?" Last issue she mounted him, now she's asking to be her boyfriend. If I were Flash I'd roll, or wait walk out of there. Sorry, couldn't resist it. But I guess it's not a complaint.Some girls move fast like that. I'd get the hell out of there Flashy boy!
Haha! I'm glad you liked it for the most part. As for her "forwardness," you've got to remember that the Carlie in Crawl Space is a different character from the Carlie in ASM. I broke her off and started building her character after Kraven's First Hunt, when she didn't really have any definition to her character in ASM. I think you'll find if you just look at how she's developed in Crawl Space that this is pretty consistent with her near-entire lack of social skills, and the feelings she's communicated to MJ. But I understand that it might be confusing to be reading Carlie in ASM and then come over here and see her as such a different character.
Overall each issue has been consistent with humor, character development and action. They all get A's and I'm proud to have my sites name on the cover of your book.
That is a very high compliment, and i will try to live up to it, sir! Thank you!
Now when is issue nine coming out?
I know I don't have a lot of credit left when I say this, but I'd really like to get this back on a more monthly schedule. So I'm shooting for mid-to-late April.
I can't wait to see the Carlie/ Flash wedding. Cause that girl doesn't waist anytime. LOL.
Haha! Well, much like Peter and MJ's story didn't end when they got married (wink wink, Marvel :wink: ), Carlie and Flash's story is far from over. "Getting together" isn't an ending, it's a fork in the road. They've still got miles to go!
Venomaniac wrote:I loved it!

At one point I had a huge smile on my face... somehting that NEVER happens when I'm reading comics
That is always awesome to hear! Which point?
You seem to be the next JMS, and I can't wait to see what happens next!
Wow, that is a much higher compliment than I'm worthy of, but I thank you very much, sir!
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Venomaniac » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:34 pm

Kevin Cushing wrote:
Venomaniac wrote:I loved it!

At one point I had a huge smile on my face... somehting that NEVER happens when I'm reading comics
That is always awesome to hear! Which point?
damn... I forgot when! I think it was during when Simon took the formula, or slightly before that

Wow, that is a much higher compliment than I'm worthy of, but I thank you very much, sir!
hahaha you're welcome
You seem to be writing Spidey in a very similar manner.
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by SpiderPlumber » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:43 am

I wish...I truly wish that the Spidey braintrust at Marvel would read this saga. It would help them to understand what they're missing.
I haven't been happy with ASM for ages, other than the occasional glimpse of good writing.
The art has been a constant problem for me - constantly shuffling writing "teams" in and out, and in my opinion, a lot of the art absolutely sucks!
My point is, it would be a lot easier for me to overlook the lousy artwork in ASM if the writing were up to par, but such is not the case.

-Enter Kevin Cushing.

Your storytelling has improved steadily since issue #1, your ideas have great depth, and most importantly, although your stories stretch far and wide with many characters and sub-plots, you are able to maintain cohesion among it all, keeping the lines visible that tie everyone together. This is the single most important element of storytelling that Marvel is missing the boat on, and they've been missing it for a long time now.

I am no storyteller...I am, however, a Spider-Man fan for 35 years now - my collection started at age 4. I am well versed enough in Spider-Mythology to recognize what is and isn't being done right. There are things that Marvel isn't doing right...the biggest of which is the writing.
Ironically enough....the best writing in ANY Spidey-Universe is being done by a man named Kevin Cushing.
I hope that some of the Marvel writers that have appeared on Spider-Man Crawl Space have the foresight to explore your site and find Spider-Man: Crawlspace.
I'm just not going to hold my breath...
"That ol' Parker Luck...."

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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by FSUSpiderFan » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:59 am

Unfortunately they can't read it for fear of lawsuit.

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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by SpiderPlumber » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:37 pm

They can't even read it and comment? I know you've all spoken to different creators while you've done interviews...they must know that you are a writer. Surely someone can offer a personal opinion to you...
"That ol' Parker Luck...."

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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Venomaniac » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:46 pm

Just re-read it again

Wow

You really have a style that reminds me so much of JMS and while I didn't love-love his stuff, yours is such a joy to read. I'd say it's better than what JMS wrote. i had a huge smile on my face when I read "Time to let them out to play"

Just one plot hole concerns me though:

Simon does all of this to peter because he wants peter To have a perfect life.
But then after getting beaten by peter he becomes a villain...why?

Simon intentionally becoming one of peter's baddies makes no sense to me given what's been established about his motivations
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Re: Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

Post by Kevin Cushing » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:31 pm

SpiderPlumber wrote:Your storytelling has improved steadily since issue #1, your ideas have great depth, and most importantly, although your stories stretch far and wide with many characters and sub-plots, you are able to maintain cohesion among it all, keeping the lines visible that tie everyone together. This is the single most important element of storytelling that Marvel is missing the boat on, and they've been missing it for a long time now.

I am no storyteller...I am, however, a Spider-Man fan for 35 years now - my collection started at age 4. I am well versed enough in Spider-Mythology to recognize what is and isn't being done right. There are things that Marvel isn't doing right...the biggest of which is the writing.
Ironically enough....the best writing in ANY Spidey-Universe is being done by a man named Kevin Cushing.
Wow, seriously, thank you very much, sir! That's incredible to hear!
I hope that some of the Marvel writers that have appeared on Spider-Man Crawl Space have the foresight to explore your site and find Spider-Man: Crawlspace.
I'm just not going to hold my breath...
Sadly FSU is right. For the same reasons you can't send unsolicited submissions to Marvel, none of their guys can come anywhere near this. The fear is that, if Marvel employees read fan stories about their characters and any remotely similar story pops up in the books, they could be sued for ripping it off. Not that I would ever do that, but they can't just trust in my honesty.
Venomaniac wrote:You really have a style that reminds me so much of JMS and while I didn't love-love his stuff, yours is such a joy to read. I'd say it's better than what JMS wrote. i had a huge smile on my face when I read "Time to let them out to play"
Once again you compliment me too highly sir, but I thank you!
Just one plot hole concerns me though:

Simon does all of this to peter because he wants peter To have a perfect life.
But then after getting beaten by peter he becomes a villain...why?

Simon intentionally becoming one of peter's baddies makes no sense to me given what's been established about his motivations
Simon's primary motivation is not to give Peter the perfect life. Simon's primary motivation is his belief that he should be Spider-Man because he could do it better. He imagines Peter and Mary Jane being a part of that as his loving and supportive family, and he does think Peter would be better off, but Peter is not his primary concern.
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