Crawl Space #8 Discussion Thread

[Venomaniac]

Simon's primary motivation is not to give Peter the perfect life. Simon's primary motivation is his belief that he should be Spider-Man because he could do it better. He imagines Peter and Mary Jane being a part of that as his loving and supportive family, and he does think Peter would be better off, but Peter is not his primary concern.

So Simon could kill Peter if it meant that Simon would be Spider-Man?

[Kevin Cushing]

So Simon could kill Peter if it meant that Simon would be Spider-Man?

Simon is Peter's brother. That helped form the perceived bond he had with Peter that made him want them all to be happy. But it also makes a feeling of betrayal cut even deeper. Simon's far from done, and after this experience that was fairly traumatic to his world-view, his motivations might not remain entirely stagnant.

[Venomaniac]

So Simon could kill Peter if it meant that Simon would be Spider-Man?

Simon is Peter's brother. That helped form the perceived bond he had with Peter that made him want them all to be happy. But it also makes a feeling of betrayal cut even deeper. Simon's far from done, and after this experience that was fairly traumatic to his world-view, his motivations might not remain entirely stagnant.

The experience being that Simon wanted to be accepted by his brother but was rejected instead? Even though (in Simon's mind) he was doing things that were best for his brother?

That correct? (I'm trying to make sure I understand all this perfectly)

[Kevin Cushing]

So Simon could kill Peter if it meant that Simon would be Spider-Man?

Simon is Peter's brother. That helped form the perceived bond he had with Peter that made him want them all to be happy. But it also makes a feeling of betrayal cut even deeper. Simon's far from done, and after this experience that was fairly traumatic to his world-view, his motivations might not remain entirely stagnant.

The experience being that Simon wanted to be accepted by his brother but was rejected instead? Even though (in Simon's mind) he was doing things that were best for his brother?

That correct? (I'm trying to make sure I understand all this perfectly)

Pretty much. He'd invested so much of his time and his hope for the future in this vision of the way things would be once he finally met Peter and put his plan into action, and it was all completely upended when it sunk in that Peter was never going to appreciate the rightness, benevolence, and even necessity of what he was saying.

[Venomaniac]

Pretty much. He'd invested so much of his time and his hope for the future in this vision of the way things would be once he finally met Peter and put his plan into action, and it was all completely upended when it sunk in that Peter was never going to appreciate the rightness, benevolence, and even necessity of what he was saying.

Sounds like Joey Q and the fans...

Another sign that Simon represents the fan mindset!

[SpiderPlumber]

Your storytelling has improved steadily since issue #1, your ideas have great depth, and most importantly, although your stories stretch far and wide with many characters and sub-plots, you are able to maintain cohesion among it all, keeping the lines visible that tie everyone together. This is the single most important element of storytelling that Marvel is missing the boat on, and they've been missing it for a long time now.

I am no storyteller...I am, however, a Spider-Man fan for 35 years now - my collection started at age 4. I am well versed enough in Spider-Mythology to recognize what is and isn't being done right. There are things that Marvel isn't doing right...the biggest of which is the writing.
Ironically enough....the best writing in ANY Spidey-Universe is being done by a man named Kevin Cushing.

Wow, seriously, thank you very much, sir! That's incredible to hear!


Don't call me sir - you'll make me feel old like J.R.!

[Venomaniac]

If I didn't make it clear enough for the audience, that's on me, and it's my responsibility to fix it.

I'm only reposting this because it shows what a classy writer you are

Something a certain group of people could learn from...

[Spekkio]

OK, so I'm caught up in anticipation of Mr. C going issue-for-issue versus OMIT. I haven't had time to read SMCP until recently. Anyway, the thing that's bugging me is the suggestion that Steve Rogers helped teach Spidey how to fight. I never got the impression that this was so, aside from maybe a lesson or two with MJ.

As for the Punisher thing, I never thought that Spidey hates him, per se...doesn't approve of his methods and how far he'll go, perhaps, but he doesn't expend a lot of effort trying to stop the Punisher, either.

[Kevin Cushing]

OK, so I'm caught up in anticipation of Mr. C going issue-for-issue versus OMIT.

Thanks man, that's really cool! I appreciate you dedicating the time to it!

Anyway, the thing that's bugging me is the suggestion that Steve Rogers helped teach Spidey how to fight. I never got the impression that this was so, aside from maybe a lesson or two with MJ.

Peter received hand-to-hand combat training from Steve Rogers during the New Avengers pre-Civil War period in JMS' ASM while they were both living in Avengers Tower. We only saw maybe two sessions on panel, but that doesn't mean they were the only ones that took place. We were told he received training, so I have to assume that's what happened. I think it's pretty clear in the books.

As for the Punisher thing, I never thought that Spidey hates him, per se...doesn't approve of his methods and how far he'll go, perhaps, but he doesn't expend a lot of effort trying to stop the Punisher, either.

I'd go as far as to say most of the heroes greatly dislike the Punisher at the very least. They'll tolerate him once in awhile when they have to, but the bottom line is he's a murderer. He's everything Spider-Man stands against. I freely admit I've not read every Spidey/Punisher story so it's possible I missed some touching moment between them where Spidey admits he has a grudging respect for the Punisher, but I've personally never seen anything to suggest that.

But, since a lot of people didn't seem to get what happened between Spidey and the Punisher in this story, I'll be putting in a short (probably 8 page) back up in the Annual (coming between #12 and 13) detailing how they came to work together here. Hopefully that'll clear things up for the readers that weren't satisfied with what they saw in #8.