The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

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The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by Venomaniac » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:45 pm

So I'm re-reading the articles, and I come accross this:

This brings to mind an interesting question? Would Mary Jane have taken drugs? After all, she was a party girl was she not? And isn't that one of the things that party girls did (in addition to sleeping around), particularly back in the late 60's and early 70's? It isn’t entirely out of the realm of possibility that Mary Jane would have experimented with drugs (after all, her very name is a synonym for marijuana - a fact that Stan Lee claimed to be ignorant of when he came up with her name). She wasn’t the square that Peter was, after all. BUT, we have to remember, much of MJ’s party girl personality was a façade, and an important part of maintaining that façade and keeping people ignorant of the pain that ate at her, was for her to remain in control of her faculties. Too much booze or too many drugs, and the party girl would have crumbled and shown her vulnerability, which would have been the last thing she would have wanted to happen. So, while it isn't beyond reason that MJ would have experimented with them (even inhaling a time or two, unlike a certain former President), I simply don’t believe she would have routinely taken drugs. She's the type of person who would have made the statement that she was "already high on life," and therefore didn't need the drugs that others were peddling. Also, as attractive as she was, she simply didn't have to indulge in drug or alcohol abuse to get herself noticed by young men. There's a poster on the Spider-Man Hype bulletin boards that vociferously disagreed with this assessment, probably moreso than any of the other points I made in these articles. Yes, it is true, with Mary Jane's troubled background, she had many of the red flags that do lead many young people into substance abuse - but isn't it possible that she had the strength of will to simply say no? That she saw enough of her father's ugly side (often no doubt brought on by too much alcohol) to realize that she did not want to be that way herself? I was raised by a woman who said no to mood-altering substances even though her background gave her every reason to do so as an excuse! And she deliberately married a man who was the exact opposite of the one she grew up with! So I just don't buy that every troubled kid going to school in the 1960's and 1970's was a druggie.




So it got me thinking: you don't think that MJ would have taken drugs when she was younger... but what about her sex life?


As seen in ASM #149 and 278 (I think... the one where she dates Alfredo) MJ apparently was not the shyest when it comes to intimate relations. Which poses the question of did she try to escape her crummy home and personal life with sex?

What are your thoughts?
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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by MadGoblin » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:44 am

Venomaniac wrote:So I'm re-reading the articles, and I come accross this:

This brings to mind an interesting question? Would Mary Jane have taken drugs? After all, she was a party girl was she not? And isn't that one of the things that party girls did (in addition to sleeping around), particularly back in the late 60's and early 70's? It isn’t entirely out of the realm of possibility that Mary Jane would have experimented with drugs (after all, her very name is a synonym for marijuana - a fact that Stan Lee claimed to be ignorant of when he came up with her name). She wasn’t the square that Peter was, after all. BUT, we have to remember, much of MJ’s party girl personality was a façade, and an important part of maintaining that façade and keeping people ignorant of the pain that ate at her, was for her to remain in control of her faculties. Too much booze or too many drugs, and the party girl would have crumbled and shown her vulnerability, which would have been the last thing she would have wanted to happen. So, while it isn't beyond reason that MJ would have experimented with them (even inhaling a time or two, unlike a certain former President), I simply don’t believe she would have routinely taken drugs. She's the type of person who would have made the statement that she was "already high on life," and therefore didn't need the drugs that others were peddling. Also, as attractive as she was, she simply didn't have to indulge in drug or alcohol abuse to get herself noticed by young men. There's a poster on the Spider-Man Hype bulletin boards that vociferously disagreed with this assessment, probably moreso than any of the other points I made in these articles. Yes, it is true, with Mary Jane's troubled background, she had many of the red flags that do lead many young people into substance abuse - but isn't it possible that she had the strength of will to simply say no? That she saw enough of her father's ugly side (often no doubt brought on by too much alcohol) to realize that she did not want to be that way herself? I was raised by a woman who said no to mood-altering substances even though her background gave her every reason to do so as an excuse! And she deliberately married a man who was the exact opposite of the one she grew up with! So I just don't buy that every troubled kid going to school in the 1960's and 1970's was a druggie.




So it got me thinking: you don't think that MJ would have taken drugs when she was younger... but what about her sex life?


As seen in ASM #149 and 278 (I think... the one where she dates Alfredo) MJ apparently was not the shyest when it comes to intimate relations. Which poses the question of did she try to escape her crummy home and personal life with sex?

What are your thoughts?

I don't entirely dismiss the idea that she might have done drugs or alcohol in college (After all, this was the 60's & 70's when the comics were first issued - and in any era, with Harry being a druggie and Flash being an alcoholic, if she hung around those guys both would be readily available. And who gets out of college without having done one or the other or both (besides Peter Parker)? I know I certainly didn't - one, not both....) but the paragraph you quote was a response to a particular individual who was as sure as the sun rises and sets each day and dismissed my articles because he unflinchingly believed that Mary Jane simply HAD to have been doing those things because of her background. He also believed that Gwen couldn't possibly have slept with Norman Osborn because she wasn't looking for a father figure because she had a good relationship with her own father (as if that would be the only reason a younger woman might sleep with an older man). I was trying to say, "Dude, I don't know what crowd you run with, but no one is guaranteed to behave a particular way because of their background - else why do some kids with rotten parents turn out good, and kids from good families turn out bad?" I'm positive that MJ would not have been an abuser, but an experimenter? Certainly not out of the question, though for the reasons I cite above, I think once MJ saw how these substances compromised her emotional defenses, she would have been prone not to indulge further.

Sex is a different question. I tend to be one of those who believes that Peter might very well have lost his virginity between issues #149-150 (after all, he realizes that he is not a clone in issue #150 because he realizes that the intensity of his feelings for Mary Jane have eclipsed those of Gwen). And if he's 20-21 years old and still a virgin, he's likely going to be very awkward at first and need a little "guidance." So, I don't think MJ was a virgin at that time by any means, nor do I think she did without during the time after rejecting his first marriage proposal and accepting his later one. I'm sure that MJ could be a heartbreaker and a ballbuster (Someone like Harry Osborn really should have stayed far away from her). Yet, she wanted to be loved, but had almost a pathological fear of commitment. Feeling powerless in an abusive situation, and watching her father relentlessly beat her mother both physically and emotionally, she may have sought activities which gave her power. And sex would have given her tremendous power. Drugs and alcohol might have compromised her exercise of that power. I leave you to speculate just what road that would have taken her.

Now, would she have slept with Norman, as Gwen did? Here I would definitely say no way. She could probably see right through Norman Osborn ("Before I knew he was the Green Goblin, I knew he was a man who lived with demons." Spectacular Spider-Man #250, I believe), knowing that in any relationship with him, she would lose. This also explains in part her attraction (and perhaps a bit of fear and uncertainty) to a dork like Peter Parker when she could have any man she wanted - one of the few good things about Spider-Man: Reign was this marvelous quote from MJ during one of the aging Peter's dream sequences "I didn't love you because you could put your fist through Flash Thompson's head - I loved you because you could but chose not to." She knew that Peter Parker had the power to take anything he wanted from her and she would have no power to stop him...but unlike many other men she had known.....he would never do that.

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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by Venomaniac » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:14 am

MadGoblin wrote:[]

Sex is a different question. I tend to be one of those who believes that Peter might very well have lost his virginity between issues #149-150 (after all, he realizes that he is not a clone in issue #150 because he realizes that the intensity of his feelings for Mary Jane have eclipsed those of Gwen). And if he's 20-21 years old and still a virgin, he's likely going to be very awkward at first and need a little "guidance." So, I don't think MJ was a virgin at that time by any means, nor do I think she did without during the time after rejecting his first marriage proposal and accepting his later one. I'm sure that MJ could be a heartbreaker and a ballbuster (Someone like Harry Osborn really should have stayed far away from her). Yet, she wanted to be loved, but had almost a pathological fear of commitment. Feeling powerless in an abusive situation, and watching her father relentlessly beat her mother both physically and emotionally, she may have sought activities which gave her power. And sex would have given her tremendous power. Drugs and alcohol might have compromised her exercise of that power. I leave you to speculate just what road that would have taken her.

Now, would she have slept with Norman, as Gwen did? Here I would definitely say no way. She could probably see right through Norman Osborn ("Before I knew he was the Green Goblin, I knew he was a man who lived with demons." Spectacular Spider-Man #250, I believe), knowing that in any relationship with him, she would lose. This also explains in part her attraction (and perhaps a bit of fear and uncertainty) to a dork like Peter Parker when she could have any man she wanted - one of the few good things about Spider-Man: Reign was this marvelous quote from MJ during one of the aging Peter's dream sequences "I didn't love you because you could put your fist through Flash Thompson's head - I loved you because you could but chose not to." She knew that Peter Parker had the power to take anything he wanted from her and she would have no power to stop him...but unlike many other men she had known.....he would never do that.

Thanks for the anlysis.
Though i do have 2 questions:

1. Wile I feel the MJ "uses sex for power" seems 100% accurate, it leads me to ask an interesting question: WHO would Mj have had sex with? While the "sex is poewr" argument would have obviouslymade sense for her, and thus could illustrate she had sex with anyone she felt she could twist around her finger. But would she merely seek out people that wouldn't harm her, like Peter? (that makes snese, though its unlikely, as I don't think MJ had EVR met anyone like Peter in her life, thus all the men she slept with were probably be scumbags- like Alfredo for instance)

2. My other question is the whole "Peter lost his virginity between #149-150" I haven't read the issue, only heard about what happened, So Peter just fought a clone of HIMSELF and watch a man (The Jackal) die. That seems to be an emotionally event no matter how you sloice it. So he adds to the mental fatigue by thinking- hey I'm going to lose my virginity! I REALLY don't think that would be what he needed mentally- he would be awkward and alittle timid, and I'm not sure if the events of that day would be the right mental conditions for Peter's first time.
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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by MadGoblin » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:06 pm

Venomaniac wrote: Thanks for the anlysis.
Though i do have 2 questions:

1. Wile I feel the MJ "uses sex for power" seems 100% accurate, it leads me to ask an interesting question: WHO would Mj have had sex with? While the "sex is poewr" argument would have obviouslymade sense for her, and thus could illustrate she had sex with anyone she felt she could twist around her finger. But would she merely seek out people that wouldn't harm her, like Peter? (that makes snese, though its unlikely, as I don't think MJ had EVR met anyone like Peter in her life, thus all the men she slept with were probably be scumbags- like Alfredo for instance)

2. My other question is the whole "Peter lost his virginity between #149-150" I haven't read the issue, only heard about what happened, So Peter just fought a clone of HIMSELF and watch a man (The Jackal) die. That seems to be an emotionally event no matter how you sloice it. So he adds to the mental fatigue by thinking- hey I'm going to lose my virginity! I REALLY don't think that would be what he needed mentally- he would be awkward and alittle timid, and I'm not sure if the events of that day would be the right mental conditions for Peter's first time.


1. I would imagine that MJ's choices were like most of ours: some good, some bad, some as acts of genuine passion, others as acts of opportunity or self-indulgence.

2. There's a little more going on than that. If you read the stories and preceeding issues, you understand it more. And there's even a part where Aunt May herself tells Mary Jane that she needs to be more aggressive in her pursuit of Peter. Also Peter had just had a tearful goodbye with the Gwen clone and was feeling pretty shitty crawling up the steps to his apartment - and then found Mary Jane waiting for him. That would certainly improve my mood. And, uh, I don't think that everyone "plans" to lose their virginity. Sometimes, it, uh ...nevermind.

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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by Donomark » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:29 pm

MadGoblin wrote:
Venomaniac wrote: Thanks for the anlysis.
Though i do have 2 questions:

1. Wile I feel the MJ "uses sex for power" seems 100% accurate, it leads me to ask an interesting question: WHO would Mj have had sex with? While the "sex is poewr" argument would have obviouslymade sense for her, and thus could illustrate she had sex with anyone she felt she could twist around her finger. But would she merely seek out people that wouldn't harm her, like Peter? (that makes snese, though its unlikely, as I don't think MJ had EVR met anyone like Peter in her life, thus all the men she slept with were probably be scumbags- like Alfredo for instance)

2. My other question is the whole "Peter lost his virginity between #149-150" I haven't read the issue, only heard about what happened, So Peter just fought a clone of HIMSELF and watch a man (The Jackal) die. That seems to be an emotionally event no matter how you sloice it. So he adds to the mental fatigue by thinking- hey I'm going to lose my virginity! I REALLY don't think that would be what he needed mentally- he would be awkward and alittle timid, and I'm not sure if the events of that day would be the right mental conditions for Peter's first time.


1. I would imagine that MJ's choices were like most of ours: some good, some bad, some as acts of genuine passion, others as acts of opportunity or self-indulgence.

2. There's a little more going on than that. If you read the stories and preceeding issues, you understand it more. And there's even a part where Aunt May herself tells Mary Jane that she needs to be more aggressive in her pursuit of Peter. Also Peter had just had a tearful goodbye with the Gwen clone and was feeling pretty shitty crawling up the steps to his apartment - and then found Mary Jane waiting for him. That would certainly improve my mood. And, uh, I don't think that everyone "plans" to lose their virginity. Sometimes, it, uh ...nevermind.
To follow up on #2....nevermind. Just roll with it, and trust the fact that people can get very emotional during certain times of their lives.

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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by Venomaniac » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:44 pm

Now I have this feeling Mj was a slut...

It is onteresting to think about. After all, wouldn't she try to get control as often as she could in her life, with everything else out of her hands?

Though this DOES bring up an interesting question

When MJ was dating Petearound ASM # 55 (if I have the numbers right) did She make a move on him???
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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by Berserkfury819 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:55 pm

I was always of the belief Peter and MJ lost their virginity to each other, maybe not but thats how I see it. I'm sure MJ has had sex with people other than Peter after they broke up the first time, but I honestly don't see her sleeping around that much. If the party girl was real, then yes. But seeing as it was a facade I don't think so. Sex is an intimate thing and I don't believe she would want to open herself up to that many people. As for drugs, I could see her maybe doing some pot, but nothing too serious.
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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by Spider-Dad » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:25 am

Venomaniac wrote:Now I have this feeling Mj was a slut...

It is onteresting to think about. After all, wouldn't she try to get control as often as she could in her life, with everything else out of her hands?

Though this DOES bring up an interesting question

When MJ was dating Petearound ASM # 55 (if I have the numbers right) did She make a move on him???
I never saw MJ as a slut, but more of a flirt. She liked the attention, but may not have taken it any further. I know may "party girls" who were exactly like that...just as JR described, it was more about controlling the situation. It is a very nuanced feeling, and I never thought comics written back the day were good at that. Actually, in Spider-Man 1, (the movie) we see a glimpse of the "true MJ", when Peter and MJ are talking about cheeseburgers outside her diner gig. Classic in showing the flirt controlling the conversation...and more.

As for did MJ make a move on him? Repeatedly. She constantly wanted to be with Peter and was clearly shown as Gwen's rival for many issues by Stan Lee in the beginning. Even after Gwen was clearly established as the girlfriend, MJ is shown wanting to "talk" to Peter. In one scene, (early issues of ASM 90's somewhere), Peter even asks her what her deal is, and she replies along the lines, "it's a long story, want to hear it?"

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Re: The secret life of Mary Jane Watson

Post by brianv326 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:08 pm

well mj was a party girl in the first part then when she got older like most people started to calm down and be more mature
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