Page 1 of 2

2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:07 pm
by MadGoblin
Any amount of prefacing would take too long and is already in the article. Thank you for your patience, and thanks to Mr. Douglas for his help. So,here it is:

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/2010/07/19/spidey-kicks-butt-returns-2007-year-in-review-the-road-to-hell-pt-1/#more-11564

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:32 pm
by black suit spiderman
Image

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:48 pm
by Funnykay
Great Work as Always J.R. I look forward to the JMS retrospective. As for Back in Black (The ASM Storyline), I found it to be rather...I don't know, the fight lived up to my expectations as did Spidey pursuing the sniper but there was something lacking, and I think it was probably a real good MJ/Aunt May scene.

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:48 pm
by Venomaniac
Spiderfan.org's take on Peter's fight with Fisk:

There's a moment here which is a nice piece of writing, which would actually work if it wasn't for the fact that it completely undermines everything about Peter Parker and Spider-Man as a character. I refer, of course, to the moment where he strips off the mask and says that its not Spider-Man that's there to kill Fisk, but Peter Parker.

There was once a time when Straczynski seemed to have a real handle on Peter Parker, in terms of how he operates, who he was with the mask on and off, and the humor of the character. However, if this was the only issue by Straczynksi that you ever read, you would have no idea that he ever understood who Peter Parker is as a character. This is dreadful trash. Peter Parker would NEVER act like this, not like this. I've read Peter Parker's problems with anger in light of disaster before, such as fighting the Green Goblin after Gwen's death, fighting Chameleon in Pursuit, fighting Norman Osborn in any of their myriad fights post-Clone Saga, and at least in all those instances Peter Parker was still in there, could still be seen, and the writing made it all seem more legitimate. But here, the characterization is so over the top to show Peter as bloodthirsty and full of revenge that I found it almost disturbing. The story itself, the fight sequence, the dialogue with Kingpin, its interesting, it makes sense and it works, but not for Spider-Man to be saying those words.

This just doesn't feel like Peter Parker in any way, shape, or form. Aunt May would be disgusted and embarrassed by his behaviour.




Your thoughts?

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:32 pm
by MadGoblin
Venomaniac wrote:Spiderfan.org's take on Peter's fight with Fisk:

There's a moment here which is a nice piece of writing, which would actually work if it wasn't for the fact that it completely undermines everything about Peter Parker and Spider-Man as a character. I refer, of course, to the moment where he strips off the mask and says that its not Spider-Man that's there to kill Fisk, but Peter Parker.

There was once a time when Straczynski seemed to have a real handle on Peter Parker, in terms of how he operates, who he was with the mask on and off, and the humor of the character. However, if this was the only issue by Straczynksi that you ever read, you would have no idea that he ever understood who Peter Parker is as a character. This is dreadful trash. Peter Parker would NEVER act like this, not like this. I've read Peter Parker's problems with anger in light of disaster before, such as fighting the Green Goblin after Gwen's death, fighting Chameleon in Pursuit, fighting Norman Osborn in any of their myriad fights post-Clone Saga, and at least in all those instances Peter Parker was still in there, could still be seen, and the writing made it all seem more legitimate. But here, the characterization is so over the top to show Peter as bloodthirsty and full of revenge that I found it almost disturbing. The story itself, the fight sequence, the dialogue with Kingpin, its interesting, it makes sense and it works, but not for Spider-Man to be saying those words.

This just doesn't feel like Peter Parker in any way, shape, or form. Aunt May would be disgusted and embarrassed by his behaviour.


Your thoughts?


Well...the reviewer and I obviously have a difference of opinion. Not sure there's any point in debating it.

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:54 pm
by Hobo-Goblin
Glad to have ya back writing, JR.

Always a pleasure to read your articles. I was pretty satisfied with how Peter handled Fisk. In contrast to that snippit of the review up there, I thought it was rather well in-character for Peter. When Gwen died, he nearly beat Norman to death, but only because he totally lost his shit.

When he's taking on Fisk, he's totally cold, clinical and knows exactly what he's doing. He knows Fisk can't touch him if he doesn't hold back, and he uses it to full effect for once. I rather thought it was a nice sign of Peter's experience and self-control, ironically.

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:41 pm
by CrazyChris
It's great to see another year in review, JR. This segment alone was well worth the long wait! I agree with you that the Kingpin beatdown was an awesome scene. I actually liked the last part of Back in Black, though, because back then I thought we were in for the long climb back to the top you described. We all know it didn't turn out that way, though.

One place where I think you're being a little unfair is in this sentence: "no responsible adult puts his family in harms way because his conscience bothers him over the perceived “mistreatment” of poor little psychotics in prison." Your characterization makes it sound like Peter's some bleeding heart protesting that the government is fluffing the pillows in Bulleyes prison cell enough. First of all, the people being locked up weren't psychotics, they were mostly do-gooders who didn't want to be forcibly conscripted into SHIELD and have their private information on a government registry just because they happen to be different. Also, "perceived 'mistreatment'" is an understatement. The unregistered heroes were being isolated in a dystopian supermax facility in a dimension that literally drains hope from human souls until they are driven mad. And the prisoners were not even given a trial or any sort of due process, so one can't claim they were reaping the fair consequence of breaking the law because the whole imprisonment system they were using was itself unlawful. Whether or not a "reasonable adult" would endanger his family to rebel against that system is a fairly debatable point, but in my opinion your wording doesn't do the dillema justice.

That's not to say I think the Civil War story was good. The idea that Iron Man and Reed Richards would devise such an injustice in the first place seems out of character, to me, and I do agree that there were better ways for Spider-Man to handle the predicament that he found himself in! Thanks for taking the time to write these pieces and interact with the folks you're writing them for! I can't wait to see what you have to say about JMS' run overall.

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:23 pm
by MadGoblin
CrazyChris wrote:One place where I think you're being a little unfair is in this sentence: "no responsible adult puts his family in harms way because his conscience bothers him over the perceived “mistreatment” of poor little psychotics in prison." Your characterization makes it sound like Peter's some bleeding heart protesting that the government is fluffing the pillows in Bulleyes prison cell enough. First of all, the people being locked up weren't psychotics, they were mostly do-gooders who didn't want to be forcibly conscripted into SHIELD and have their private information on a government registry just because they happen to be different. Also, "perceived 'mistreatment'" is an understatement. The unregistered heroes were being isolated in a dystopian supermax facility in a dimension that literally drains hope from human souls until they are driven mad. And the prisoners were not even given a trial or any sort of due process, so one can't claim they were reaping the fair consequence of breaking the law because the whole imprisonment system they were using was itself unlawful. Whether or not a "reasonable adult" would endanger his family to rebel against that system is a fairly debatable point, but in my opinion your wording doesn't do the dillema justice.


You know, "Spekkio" said the same thing on the front page, so I may have to revisit that. Wouldn't be the first time I had to issue a mea culpa. My irritation with the whole Civil War fiasco (I re-read my article on the subject and I was pretty ticked with the whole thing because it seemed like Marvel took a legitimately interesting issue and screwed it up royally for any number of reasons), particularly JMS' failure to actually try to deal with it in a balanced fashion influenced my attitude on this article. Also, the fact that the prison was the ONLY thing Spidey seemed upset about when he went on TV, when Stark and Richards were also growing killer clones, making deals with his worst enemies, Norman Osborn (Tony wants to be Spidey's mentor and Spidey to be at his side - and yet he makes a deal with the murderer of Peter's girlfriend?) and Venom, and profiting from the construction of the Gulag. I may have made my own zealous overstatement.

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:53 pm
by black suit spiderman
JR is back!

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:05 pm
by MadGoblin
black suit spiderman wrote:JR is back!


Love that Goblin picture! [smilie=greengoblin.gif]

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:14 pm
by Shadow116
Welcome back JR, really enjoyed the latest article very much. [smilie=spidey_thumbs.gif]

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:32 am
by black suit spiderman
MadGoblin wrote:
black suit spiderman wrote:JR is back!


Love that Goblin picture! [smilie=greengoblin.gif]


Thanks, I added the caption myself. I have a better one, here is the link: http://cheezburger.com/View/3773629440

[smilie=greengoblin.gif]

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:38 pm
by slave83b
You know JR, even though we've had no shortage of your opinions thanks to the podcast, I've really missed your prose.

Good to have you back!

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:10 pm
by black suit spiderman
I could not agree more with you! [smilie=spidey_yeah_that.gif]

Re: 2007 Year in Review Part 1

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:06 pm
by Nickster79
So glad you are doing better and it's great to be reading your articles again! [smilie=spidey_clap.gif] [smilie=spidey_thumbs.gif]