Goblin Prince Concludes

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Goblin Prince Concludes

Postby MadGoblin » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:01 pm

The end of a project that was 2 1/2 years in the making. Yes, it took that long, and yes, I sort of limp to the finish line, but it's time to wrap this up and move onto other things.


Goblin at Rest Part 2
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Postby ScarletSpider1138 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:25 am

Unforunately I have to agree with the limp comment. This last section is kind've weak and really just gives us plot summary and expected MadGoblin statements along the lines of "yes, Norman was the better villain, yes, it was right to kill Harry for that story, yes it's right to bring him back if he's used well" because all those points have been made by you in other articles before.

The most interesting bits were when you talked about your feelings reading the issues the first time, the possibilities of Harry moving into true psycho villainhood, and so on.

You promise to explain why the Goblin Formula didn't make Harry insane either, but only lightly touch on it, and give the standard statements, as opposed to the usually insightful commentary.

I won't say I was dissappointed, because I wasn't, but I will say I was underwhelmed.

Sorry, it's a little unfair I know to expect a normal human being with a normal human life to come up with absolutely brilliant articles about the world of a comic book character on a regular basis, but it was the conclusion, as you say, of a piece 2.5 years in the making.

In other words, you followed the "great opening, mediocre middle, weak ending" format of so Many Marvel "Masterpieces" produced these days. (Sorry to really sting ya, but I couldn't resist the comparison).

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Postby CrazyChris » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:48 pm

It's good to see you're still writing. I had given up hope, sorry to say. Another fine article!
Last edited by CrazyChris on Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Zarius » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:56 pm

I'll have to conted that MJ was more Peter's best friend than Harry ever was, I feel Harry is simotaniously overrated and understated in that role in fans minds. Understated in that it was used to incredible effect when the history of the two was touched on dramaticly (Peter DID bond with Harry before MJ, and part of that history of being sort of "kicked to the curb" by MJ unintentionally gravitated fans to try to understand Harry's need to "fit in" and lashing out when exiled), and overrated when it came down to the basics of BEING relativly normal....because I just see him as a friend who likes to hold on to the days his role as the best friend went unmatched.

As for his ressurection...count me amongst the legions of fans who never wanted him back in the first place and who certaingly couldnt give a toss what occurs in this faux timeline.
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The people claiming it is stale only show the lack of imagination they have, as the character is returned once again to 20 years old...wow, we never seen that before. Keeping the character relevant? Please. Maybe it is time to create new Marvel Heroes, instead of destroying and retelling well-worn old stories.


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Postby Miles_Warren » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:09 pm

ScarletSpider1138 wrote:
In other words, you followed the "great opening, mediocre middle, weak ending" format of so Many Marvel "Masterpieces" produced these days. (Sorry to really sting ya, but I couldn't resist the comparison).



I have to respectfully disagree with you ScarletSpider. Reading the entire Goblin Prince articles as a whole proved to be a spectacular read. They were about so much more than Harry Osborn and his troubled life. JR managed to trace the Osborn lineage back a few generations and gave us an insight view of what it means to be an Osborn. From Norman's childhood to Harry's death, the legacy of the Green Goblin was never displayed so brillaintly than within these articles.

This last article wasn't weak. It was a conclusion to a story that ended 15 years ago--that of Harry's (no his recent comeback doesn't count imo). Sure it was a plot summary (most of the Goblin Prince articles are) but JR did tackle whether Harry should've died etc. This debate has been going on for years and years......what more is there to add?
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Postby ditko_loves_green77 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:27 pm

I enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed the other articles in the Goblin Prince section
to make this clear, I enjoyed them A LOT! :D


Keep up the good work JR
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Postby Thanos6 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:19 pm

I too thought this was a great article, well worth the wait. The only disagreement I have is one I've always had; I would used not an Osborn but Octavius as the clone mastermind. At the time, he was my fave Spidey villain, and is still in the top three, and both then and now, I would see no problem with writing Octopus as the kind of brilliantly demented supergenius who would work his own death and resurrection into his grand plan.

Got a good chuckle out of the "hurt/comfort slash fiction" line. Never understood the appeal of that particular sub-genre myself; I favor the "best friends realize true depth of feeling" one. *points to guys in avatar as an example*
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Postby gregxb » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:22 pm

I enjoyed the article as well.

What's in store next, JR? I'm hoping for Doc Ock, myself.
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Postby Thanos6 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:05 pm

gregxb wrote:I enjoyed the article as well.

What's in store next, JR? I'm hoping for Doc Ock, myself.


So is he. Pretty soon I think the doctor is going to make me post another of his threatening missives...
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Postby Spider-Dad » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:46 pm

Madgoblin,

First off, very nicely done. Don't be so hard on yourself on "limping" to the end, it was a good read. However, I hate to burst your bubble, you are not done with this series. With Harry returning from the "dead", there is more story to tell....will they rectify their mistakes (as you asked) the answer is probably not. Marvel should rename themselves the "House of Missed Opportunities...".

I know my next sentence is not in line with your thinking, but to me Norman should have never "returned" from the dead. In my opinion, what made the death of Norman so powerful is he stayed dead. After approx. 10 years, I thought it was truly permanent, especially with the introduction of the Hobgoblin. At that time, no villain stayed dead that long, so it made it more "real". The fact he returned ANOTHER 10 years later to fix a stupid storyline, diminished the power of the original stories in #121-122. To me Gwen's death was tragic is very simple, Spider-Man (the hero) did not save the love of his life. Unbelievable! Truly a watershed moment in comics. Let's make it even better and have the villain killed in attempting to murder the hero. Brilliant! Norman's return weakened all of that for me and watered down one of the truly respectable stories in the history of comics.

The death of Harry to me was not as tragic. I remember reading that story when it came out and thought, I wonder when he will be back? The "Gotcha" line only a few issues later made me think Harry DID make the transition to FULL villain and left his family for good. Cool! But it was not meant to be. To me this was a truly a lost opportunity to elevate Harry to another level of villany. Harry could have been the "mystery man" (conveniently in the shadows...) for various BS stories, only to be revealed later to be truly behind the entire Clone Screwup. This would have kept Norman dead, issues #121-122 meaning intact and then Harry would be no longer "a prince", but the real deal.

Too bad... it could have been more interesting, Norman really dead, (a great villain that STAYS dead in comics? Brilliant!)...and a truly powerful, evil Harry now returns during the clone mess seeking revenge on Peter for his fathers death. Transfer of the Osborn Legacy complete...

Sorry Spider-Man fans. Not to be and thanks to OMD\BND now we get the additional poke in the eye:
- Norman back - but can't remember Peter being Spider-Man.
- Harry back - but without explanation on his return.
- Goblins? Who was the Goblin? Norman? Nope. Thankfully Urich remembers...

So again, don't worry about your article. Marvel will give you plenty of opportunities in the upcoming months for you to revise this version and add a Chapter 3 to another fine "SpideyKicksButt" series. Like CrazyChris said, nice to see you writing again. It is always a pleasure...
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Postby Kevin Cushing » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:35 pm

DAMN IT I'm glad I finally read one of your articles. I just read the entire Goblin Prince series, and I have to say, it was excellent. I've never seen anything like it anywhere. The words aren't really coming to me to properly praise you, but suffice it to say you did just fantastic work here, JR, from start to finish. I was enthralled by both the story that the Spider-Man writers have told over the years and your deep insights into all the events and characters. You even made me change the way I look at some things. Absolutely top notch work here, my friend. I hope you feel the proper pride in this impressive work, because it deserves to be published and made required reading for every future writer who wins the priviledge to work on the character. Thank you for giving us all such an amazing resource and sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience, JR!
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Postby MsMarvel1 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:45 am

Got a good chuckle out of the "hurt/comfort slash fiction" line. Never understood the appeal of that particular sub-genre myself; I favor the "best friends realize true depth of feeling" one.


Aww, but it's like that time in Jane Eyre when Mr. Rochester gets blinded from the fire and Jane returns in his time of need and he's like, "Jane, Jane, is that you?" and then they hug and cry and stuff and then it's all "Reader, I married him." :cry: Just ... y'know. With two dudes.

Also, I feel like I am always compelled to respond to these slash jokes. At this point, I'm getting tired of me. :?

Anyway, I'm glad to see the end of this series on my favorite character ever and I'm glad to know you're still writing, J.R.
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Postby Miles_Warren » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:26 pm

Wow Harry Osborn is your favourite character ever, MsMarvel1?

I would have thought by your username and avartar that Ms Marvel would be #1? :lol:
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Re: Goblin Prince Concludes

Postby Aarkus » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:53 pm

JR:

I've been reading the Goblin Prince essays this past week, as Harry has always been a personal fascination for me, moreso than his old man (who has become something of a glut-presence in the Marvel Universe). Color me impressed! When I copied the pages into Word, I was spellbound to discover that the whole run well exceeded 150 pages, single spaced! Anyways, I wanted to express my gratitude for the essay: I thought it was both well crafted and provided a thorough analysis of the characters of Peter, Harry, Gwen, Norman, Liz, the Molten Man, and MJ. I eagerly look forward to reading your other essays.

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