Brand New Day

Discuss your thoughts on the articles written by J.R. Fettinger from the www.spideykicksbutt.com website.

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Brand New Day

Postby Bevie » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:02 pm

Just listened to the latest podcast. JR you were kicking butt all right. Though you did give much too high a mark. C- ?
I would rate it Z-. But, thats just me. I'd rate it much higher if MJ and Pete were still together. Then I would really buy
it and read it.

In my many years of lurking on the Spidey boards, there were quite a few ladies posting who really enjoyed Spider-Man
books. Aging Fangirl, Captivated, and Lilaeth (who I still see now and then) and some I can't remember their board names.
I don't see any of them any more, except Lilaeth, who is still carrying on. They all loved the Spidey marriage and were
really angry it was done away with arbitrarily. The posters who loved BND seem to be all of the male variety. Do you
think that this change in the status quo will drive most of the lady readers away? I don't think that is a good idea, as they
need all the readers they can get of either sex. I know there are a heck of a lot of the male readers who are objecting
to the change as well, and good for them.

A lot of the guys really seem to like the premise of many different relationships occurring. Out with one, and in with the
next one. Boffo!! Women I think are much more interested in a true love relationship ongoing story. Geez! MJ didn't
have to be on every page, or in every story. She has her own life (or should have) and could be doing her own thing
out of sight. But just knowing she was Spidey's rock was understood even if she didn't show up on the page. Also, she
didn't have to be a supermodel. All they had to do was write her out of it, and give her something interesting to do, like
JMS was doing with off Broadway.

You said on the podcast that Aunt May was disappointed in Peter, and he spoke of his crabby aunt. This rings completely
false. These two loved each other dearly. She once didn't speak to him when he dropped out of Grad school, but she
always loved him unconditionally. And he would NEVER refer to her as his crabby aunt to anyone. Is this supposed to be
hip and cool for a guy? Morbius hit it on the head when he called him a creepy loser.

You liked him better as a teacher. So did I. Morb and Brad like him back at the Bugle with the Bugle staff. Why
couldn't they gradually promote Peter to be a Science reporter like they made Betty a news reporter? That way, he would
be at the Bugle, not have to be there all the time, have time to be Spidey and interact with the Bugle cast and be writing
a column about something he loves.

Anyway, at the moment there is nothing I care about in BND. Whatever they do within their status quo interests me not
a bit. I'll just read my back issues again. It takes a couple of years, what with all the books and the minis and the team-ups.
But I'll quit at the end of Back in Black. I don't want to ever open a page of OMD in my lifetime.

So while I'm enjoying my back issues, if the status quo should change to be more to my liking I would certainly be back on
board in a heartbeat. Till then, bye bye BND.

PS: looking forward to your next column and the 2nd half of the podcast. [smilie=greengoblin.gif]
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Re: Brand New Day

Postby BD » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:34 pm

Bevie wrote:Just listened to the latest podcast. JR you were kicking butt all right. Though you did give much too high a mark. C- ?
I would rate it Z-. But, thats just me. I'd rate it much higher if MJ and Pete were still together. Then I would really buy
it and read it.[smilie=greengoblin.gif]


Bevie,
With all due respect, how can you rate a book you have not read? That's like saying the new Iron Man movie sucks, yet it hasn't been released yet.
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Postby Bevie » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:29 am

Hi Brad

Just want to say, I love your site and I love your podcasts. They are both top-notch. [smilie=spidey_not_kidding.gif]

As to your question how I can judge the book I haven't read. It's hard to explain how I feel about Spider-Man. He's been a part
of most of my life. The present status quo dictated by Joe Quesada and Tom Brevoort is not something that I can garner up the
least interest in. The book could be written by Shakespeare and I wouldn't have any desire to read it.

Also, none of the preview pages or reviews or critiques that I have read about it, (and some have been quite favourable) have
made me change my mindset. The thing I liked most of all was the artwork I saw.

I loved the long slow build-up from Amazing 42 of MJ and Peter's friendship developing into love and marriage. Really, it was the
marriage between these two amazing people that kept me reading when the stories themselves were really bad. (Such as, Peter
is a clone, Aunt May is an actress, robot parents, the reboot, Gwen's kids, the Other, the unmasking etc.) The relationship between these two was really inspiring and I loved it. If they had continued on with Peter as a clone, and Reilly as the real deal, then I would have dropped Amazing, and been hoping for a book titled "Peter Parker in Portland". Haha!

Oh, how I was looking forward to Dan Slott writing Spidey, as I just loved his Spider-Man/Torch mini. Happy I was to read that
the book would come out 3 times a month. Then Mr. Quesada did his thing in One More Day and completely destroyed my
enthusiasm. This was such a slap in the face to me, especially after the wonderful Spectacular Annual by Matt Fraction. I've
read that book about 5 times and it is so emotionally satisfying. I cannot believe that Dan Slott, continuity expert that he is,
could not write a wonderful book including Spidey's marriage to the wonderfully strong female character that MJ has become.
Also, he had already established an out for the unmasking debacle.

So, no matter how well written the new books are, they are a big disappointment to me. And that's just me! If I had never
read a Spidey comic in my life, I might just love the books. But it seems to me this is an alternate Spider-Man, just like
Ultimate Spidey is, and I am only interested in the real deal. The married one who remembers his continuity the way it
really was. I love that guy.

If this is all some kind of a swerve and Marvel shows this to be an alternate universe or some kind of dream or illusion, then
I'll be back on board and picking up the TPB's for the books I've missed.

Not buying the books is the only way I have to express my dislike of the direction taken by Mr. Quesada.
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Postby Spidey418 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:05 pm

I have to agree to an extent. I dropped ASM post OMD. I miss Spidey. But if I can't and don't vote with my dollars against inane, insulting storytelling, then I'm just some shill who buys whatever crap Marvel throws at me because it says "Spider Man" on the cover.

I dropped ASM at the dawn of the Clone Saga, and so I felt obligated to do the same here. And as the podcasts have said, the changes and the dislike for the current direction go FAR beyond marriage/no marriage.

I read the ASM reviews on comic sites. I listen to all manner of pundits discuss BND so far. All the talk of character regression, cliched 70s storytelling, and uninspiring new villans have only convinced me my decision was correct.

So fall, fall, sales, for this is not MY Spider Man. The Spidey of new kids who find it impossible to like someone who is married? Perhaps. The Spidey of old school fans who KNEW cheesy cliched Spiderman the first time and who are on a nostalgia kick? Perhaps. I'll content myself with USM trades and ASM back issue hunting until this cold, cold winter leaves us.
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Postby ScarletSpider1138 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:39 pm

After OMD I said "If Joe Quesada wants me to buy another Marvel comic, he has to come to my house, [Edited by Morbius. Seriously, that kind oof language and sentiment is totally inappropriate no matter what color it's in]" I realise that sounds a little extreme, but the only Marvel comics I liked Post- Civil War was Iron Man and Captain America.

Man, my Marvel died in 1999, I'd say right before the reboot. For me it lives on in Tom DeFalco's Spider-Girl. I thought it had come back in 2005, I loved the Astonishing X-Men and Mark Millar's "Spider-man: Shush" :wink: and I also really liked Civil War despite all the negative reviews it's gotten -- but for Marvel to do something as ballsy as Civil War and then quickly undo all of it, well, that was really DC of them.

(Btw, if "my" Marvel was between 1961-1999, "my" DC was 1985-1994, with bits and pieces of other stuff from the 30s, 70s, and 90s thrown in. Much smaller appreciation window.)
If I just read ASM #1-38 over and over again, it's like Ditko never left... right, guys? Guys... ?
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Postby BD » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:33 am

Bevie,
Thanks for the praise of the site, I really appreciate it. I also enjoy that we can have a discussion that won't break out into insults like some other boards that are less than friendly.

To address a few of your points.
So, no matter how well written the new books are, they are a big disappointment to me. And that's just me! If I had never
read a Spidey comic in my life, I might just love the books. But it seems to me this is an alternate Spider-Man, just like
Ultimate Spidey is, and I am only interested in the real deal. The married one who remembers his continuity the way it
really was. I love that guy.


I just think the character of Spidey is bigger than marriage. Nothing in the Marvel Universe is set in stone. This is a world of people that can stick to walls, fly, blow up planets etc. Why should marriage be a constant in the universe? Like Steve Wacker said in the podcast, in ten or twenty years , the next generation of Marvel works could bring back the marriage. I mean that's what they grew up on. However, I love the character and I read them for entertainment. I think the stories are very entertaining at the moment, more than they have been in a few years. I'm not willing to wait ten or twenty years for a certain version of the character to come back.


Not buying the books is the only way I have to express my dislike of the direction taken by Mr. Quesada.
And I agree with you on this point, but I'm not that strong. Spidey is my favorite character, I'm addicted to his adventures. If I read each issue, hated them all and it lasted for years then I might give up. But I've been collecting Spidey since I was three years old and I'm 33 now. There hasn't been a point where I hate the character or am not interested what is happening in his world.
I feel you also care for the character, and wonder how you can avoid finding out what's happening in his world.
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Postby ScarletSpider1138 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:55 am

Ten years, heck, with the way comics work these days we might see a reversal within a year.

Y'know, people complain about the whole supernatural devil deal with OMD, but unlike a real world good storyline divorce, it at least affords the writers a way out.

For example, if I was assigned to retcon Brand New Day back to 616, you could easily say that everything Peter's been experiencing was a kind of hallucinatory vision with Mephisto screwing with his mind. Mephisto himself had disguised himself as one of the Osborns (take your pick Harry or Norman) in order to watch Peter, while Menace/Jackpot/Sarah represent expressions of MJ in Peter's psyche, the fact that his lack of her plays heavily on his mind, for example: Menace represents everything in MJ and marriage that Peter is afraid of, all his anxieties and hang-ups, all the complications it causes -- Jackpot represents all that Peter fell in love with when he met MJ, the beauty, the spunk, the sense of adventure and the chase -- Sarah represents the dependable nature of marriage, that reassuring sense of someone being there when you come home. I would have Peter either wake up or be rescued by another hero who defeats Mephisto, maybe one who's actually concerned with Mephisto, like, I dunno, Ghost Rider, and then he's surrounded by MJ and Flash and Betty and all the people who love him, informing him that he's been in a coma and how worried they were, etc., and he admits not remembering much, and MJ says his health declined following May's death from her gunshot wound.

If I had to undo it, that's how I'd do it. Making it a deal with the devil was cheap and stupid, but it allows them a backdoor, which as Harve Bennet learnt making Star Trek II, is essential when making a controversial change.
If I just read ASM #1-38 over and over again, it's like Ditko never left... right, guys? Guys... ?
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Postby Bevie » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:18 am

Scarlet Spider - Bravo! I really like how you are thinking. If only that would be the way it would be done. That's the only way I could
accept the present direction, if it is an illusion or dream-state. Mr. Negative - maybe re Pete's pics of Spidey being used negatively by
JJJ to discredit him, Freak - called that in print, Menace - JJJ's favourite name for him, Jackpot - obvious reference there.

Seemed strange that he would be wearing his web-shooters as Peter when he was taking a six month hiatus from Spider-Man. Why
would he have them on anyway then? He always kept them in his pockets before and slipped them on when changing to Spidey.

Dan Slott stated "We haven't brought anybody back from the dead". What could that mean?

Since I haven't read the books, only the preview pages and the reviews, I don't know if any more strange things occurred. Just
certain things seemed a little bit off.

And Brad - Gosh! I know how you love Spidey. You wouldn't have such a great site if not. You say you are addicted.
Well, I have been accused by a very close friend that I am obsessed. We both love the guy. Really, Brad, I'm old enough
to be your granny, so when I say that the first Amazing Spider-Man I bought right off the shelf was Volume 1 #42. And that
one was the "Face it Tiger. You just hit the Jackjpot" book. Something about that likeable guy Peter Parker made me be
sure to pick up the next one and the next one. Giving up Amazing for me after #545 was really easy. Giving up on my
Spider-Man was worse for me than when I gave up smoking. But it seemed to me that Marvel was giving up on my guy and
was trying to push a substitute character with a different personality and the same name Peter Parker. The Spider-Man who
I've seen on the preview pages doesn't seem that much different to me, but the Peter Parker? I don't recognize him.

I'm still getting New Avengers and will continue to, until it is made obvious to me that he also is the new version of Peter.

Of course I still have Spider-Girl to get my fix of the Peter I recognize, and also Stan Lee's newspaper strip.

And I'll never give up hoping that that character I've followed for 40 years will be returned. I wish I wasn't so fussy, I wish
I could just ignore OMD and carry on, but I can't.

Anyway, thank goodness for this site. The reason I like it so much is that there is almost no personal attacking going on
here. Everyone seems to be able to state their opinions in a civil unconfrontational manner. To mention a board that
is the complete opposite - Newsarama. I joined up with that one just to be able to vote in the polls. LOL!

I have the utmost respect for you Brad, Morbius, Spideydude, and Madgoblin. JR is the one who gave me the courage to
join up with a board, as I was a lurker for many many years. I need a place to get my Spidey fix as I don't know
anybody personally who is the least bit interested in my Spidey obsession. It's good to be with fellow fans. [smilie=spidey_cheers.gif]
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Postby ScarletSpider1138 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:13 pm

Yeah, I know this guy who said he couldn't get into the post-marriage comics because to him Peter was a nerd who lived at home and was a loser -- but man, people don't stay that way forever. One of the smartest things Marvel did was allowing their characters to grow and progress and change and I loved it. I gave up on Marvel not only because the writing is bad but because I want to see my characters progress, not regress.

Btw -- anyone who says "Well, why would Peter be doing that, that's stupid" in regards to something in the new storylines, counter them with "This is a 30-year old Peter Parker who lives in his aunt's spare room and doesn't even own a computer or have a job. He's an idiot."

One of the reasons for the organic webshooters I recall was that it was unbelievable that a 15 year old could design and build such advanced contraptions.

Now we have a 30 year old whose smart enough to build webshooters, but not smart enough to load them -- or own a computer.

I mean, I know 8 year old girls who own computers. :roll:

Btw -- I've noticed that the Spectacular show hasn't addressed webshooters. Pete hasn't said "ohmigosh I'm out of cliched plot devices, uh, I mean, webbing!" but we also haven't seen Peter use his webbing out of costume to see if they are organic. I like that, not addressing it. Cause in my opinion -- it doesn't matter.
If I just read ASM #1-38 over and over again, it's like Ditko never left... right, guys? Guys... ?
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Postby Zarius » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:20 am

If I were to retcon BND, I'd retcon Peter from ever unmasking. I'm aware Slott had probably the best solution out of it, but I just think Peter would NEVER have stayed with Stark in the first place had the SRA been initiated. He'd have sided with Cap, Peter being on Tony's side was what truley drove me permanently away from the corrupt and corporate 616 title.
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The people claiming it is stale only show the lack of imagination they have, as the character is returned once again to 20 years old...wow, we never seen that before. Keeping the character relevant? Please. Maybe it is time to create new Marvel Heroes, instead of destroying and retelling well-worn old stories.


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A lot of People who got over OMD STILL don't like BND. FACT

People who get all whiny about anti-BND fans shouldnt be trolling them in their sigs. Nobody "gets over" a development that is open to free and open opinion. THE GOSPEL TRUTH,

Trolls have their wives thrown off bridges.
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