Spider-Man 2006 Part 5 - The Conclusion

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Spider-Man 2006 Part 5 - The Conclusion

Postby MadGoblin » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:11 pm

Spider-Man 2006 Part 5

Spider-Girl and the Best and Worst of 2006. Have fun!
Last edited by MadGoblin on Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Leopard-Lad » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:18 pm

Ah how could you not like Marvel Zombies? For me that was the best book of 2006, was so twisted and funny. But I can understand why it wouldn't be your cup of tea so fair enough.
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Postby Thanos6 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:13 pm

Zombies were...meh. Never liked Zombies. Marvel Vampires, now, I would probably have loved, or maybe a whole series set in Kulan Gath's time-twisted sword-and-sorcery version of Marvel.

As always, JR, I agree with you on most, just a few nitpicks here and there.

athers have taken a bad rap in the era of "women's liberation" as the left wing insists children don't need fathers because we're sex-crazed, drunken, abusive foul-mouthed, foul-smelling misogynistic fiends at our worst, or addled buffoons nor more useful than a sperm donor at our best.


I'm as left-wing as you get and I certainly don't believe that. A certain splinter of the left believes it, to be sure, but to paint a whole side of the political spectrum like that would be like me saying the right-wing believes mothers should have no ambitions or goals beyond being "baby factories" for a super-race. Only true about part of it.

Also, re: Web of Romance. That was the one where MJ gets shooters, right? I remember liking it up till the end where they mention how Spidey should put warning LEDs on them so he'll know when his webbing is about to run out...which, of course, he already did!

It was a year that the main title sank, but the writers of the other two titles picked up the slack with interesting, and sometimes even compelling stories, yet Spider-Man fans chose to reject them and continue to line up to drink the Civil War Kool-Aid.

You have only yourselves to blame for what happened in 2007.


Can't pin this one on me. I didn't buy a single book of that Civil War nonsense (nor House of M, and the only Disassembled I got was Thor, which really had nothing to do with Disassembled). I've been avoiding the Kool-Aid like a spokesperson for Capri Sun. ;)
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Postby SheriffOfCoffeeTown » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:27 pm

I'll field the concern about Marvel Zombies, and hopefully articulate a good defense of those of us who didn't like it. Or at least, I'll articulate in a legible manner why I didn't like it.

In the interest of full disclosure, I don't like zombie films as a rule, because zombies are the most uninteresting movie monsters of all time. All they have going for them is that there's lots of them, and you may see people you know among the throng out to eat you. George A. Ramero knows this, of course, and compensates by creating drama among the protagonists. However, this inevitably leads to a cast of characters so dysfunctional, despicable, or generally annoying that I'm really just watching for the satisfaction of seeing them die. The Resident Evil movies also downplay the zombies themselves by focusing more on the conspiracy angle of the plot. (And, of course, there are many other beasties in the video games to focus on.) So, yeah, not a fan of zombies in general.

Ironically, however, my problems with the zombie genre are ultimately irrelevant to MZ, because it breaks most of the rules of the zombie genre. (I'm not even sure if a zombie with sentience is still really a zombie.) What it is instead is page after page of super heroes reduced to inhuman monsters. That's it. I won't say that a zombie Spider-Man would never eat his loved ones, of course, but if part of the story is that the zombies eventually retain "rationality", then why, exactly, haven't most of them destroyed themselves once that happened? If Captain America's fate was any indication, it's possible to "kill" a zombie; you can't tell me that Spider-Man wouldn't have done that to himself. Or Captain America, or many others.

Ignoring that huge oversight, however, this series plodded on for five issues with little plot or point. Ultimately, it was the same joke repeated over and over. "Boy, the mechanics of being a zombie sure suck, don't they?" There was also no drama, because there was no reason to care for any of the characters involved; the "protagonists" were monsters, and there were no real antagonists. Who cares what happens? The world is already dead.

So, really, I must wonder what the appeal is in watching heroes act like monsters? Don't get me wrong; a good fall from grace story can be awesome. (Emphasis on "good".) A hero becoming a villain can make for compelling reading. But that's not what happened here, because no one fell; a single plot device automatically made them less than villains. (Villains are at least interesting.) To even further underscore the falling from grace idea, there are no other characters of any consequence to play off of the "fallen angels" that used to be heroes.

There's nothing to this story than watching things like Spider-Man eating his wife, or Giant Man biting off the Wasp's head. And I know I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but I do question the tastes of people who find enjoyment in this type of thing.

MZ was a disgusting waste of time. But that's just me.

Nice review all around, JR. I too loved the Hobgoblin in the tail end of Spider-Girl; I hadn't been that excited about her title since the three-part Venom arc the year prior. Good times.
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Postby CyberGhostface » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:29 pm

I didn't care for MZ the first time I read it, but rereading I had a fun time. You're not supposed to take it seriously. Granted, I do have to agree that Marvel is milking it for all it's worth...variant covers is one thing, but variant hardcovers? Who's going to buy a hardcover multiple times because it has a different dustjacket??

The sequel (Marvel Zombies 2) is a lot better though. There's actually a plot this time around, and its pretty interesting.

And Robert Kirkman's other zombie book (The Walking Dead) is fantastic. Even if you hate everything MZ related I'd still give it a shot.

SheriffOfCoffeeTown wrote:And I know I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but I do question the tastes of people who find enjoyment in this type of thing.


You're right, you probably are. As a horror fan, I find it annoying when people say "Ick, how can you like that? Are you disturbed?" as if we're all a bunch of degenerates who get off on blood and gore. I'm willing to bet a lot of the MZ fans don't actually *enjoy* seeing Spider-Man eating Aunt May but are able to distance themselves and laugh at the absurdity of the situation. (I mean, how can you not laugh at Zombie Spider-Man about to eat poor Jonah? :D)
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Postby SheriffOfCoffeeTown » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:06 pm

CyberGhostface wrote:I didn't care for MZ the first time I read it, but rereading I had a fun
SheriffOfCoffeeTown wrote:And I know I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but I do question the tastes of people who find enjoyment in this type of thing.


You're right, you probably are. As a horror fan, I find it annoying when people say "Ick, how can you like that? Are you disturbed?" as if we're all a bunch of degenerates who get off on blood and gore. I'm willing to bet a lot of the MZ fans don't actually *enjoy* seeing Spider-Man eating Aunt May but are able to distance themselves and laugh at the absurdity of the situation. (I mean, how can you not laugh at Zombie Spider-Man about to eat poor Jonah? :D)


I'm not knocking the horror genre, and I don't think anyone will argue when I say that MZ isn't horror, despite using some of its trappings. MZ was just gore for gore's sake.
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nice article

Postby Keny from Prague » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:25 am

Hi MadGoblin, nice article as usual even if I hadnt read any of the issues, its nice to keep up. just one question about something I didnt understand. What does it mean "byrne stole"? Im guessing it has something to do with the writer but im not sure exactly what it means and i couldnt quite guess it from context.

thanks
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Re: nice article

Postby SheriffOfCoffeeTown » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:47 am

Keny from Prague wrote:Hi MadGoblin, nice article as usual even if I hadnt read any of the issues, its nice to keep up. just one question about something I didnt understand. What does it mean "byrne stole"? Im guessing it has something to do with the writer but im not sure exactly what it means and i couldnt quite guess it from context.

thanks


"Bryne-steal" means to read the comic in the store without purchasing it. It was termed during the Chapter One/Reboot era of almost ten years ago, when John Bryne was on the titles.
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Re: nice article

Postby MadGoblin » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:39 am

SheriffOfCoffeeTown wrote:
Keny from Prague wrote:Hi MadGoblin, nice article as usual even if I hadnt read any of the issues, its nice to keep up. just one question about something I didnt understand. What does it mean "byrne stole"? Im guessing it has something to do with the writer but im not sure exactly what it means and i couldnt quite guess it from context.

thanks


"Bryne-steal" means to read the comic in the store without purchasing it. It was termed during the Chapter One/Reboot era of almost ten years ago, when John Bryne was on the titles.


Yeah, John Byrne said that reading the comics without paying for them was equal to stealing - so a new catchphrase was born.

Thanos your point is well taken on the absence of a qualifier of sorts in front of left wing. You're not saying that everyone on the left believes like Catherine McKinnon or Melissa Etheridge? [smilie=greengoblin.gif]

Cyberghostface - I've Bryne-stole some of the Walking Dead trades at Borders and you're right - that's some good, though rather intense at times, stuff.
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Postby CyberGhostface » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:56 am

SheriffOfCoffeeTown wrote:I'm not knocking the horror genre, and I don't think anyone will argue when I say that MZ isn't horror, despite using some of its trappings. MZ was just gore for gore's sake.


That's not my point. Its the whole "I question the tastes of people who enjoy this" that bugs me. (And I've seen gore for gore's sake...trust me. Marvel Zombies doesn't fit that quota.)
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Postby SheriffOfCoffeeTown » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:05 pm

CyberGhostface wrote:
SheriffOfCoffeeTown wrote:I'm not knocking the horror genre, and I don't think anyone will argue when I say that MZ isn't horror, despite using some of its trappings. MZ was just gore for gore's sake.


That's not my point. Its the whole "I question the tastes of people who enjoy this" that bugs me. (And I've seen gore for gore's sake...trust me. Marvel Zombies doesn't fit that quota.)


Okay, I'll clarify. I question the tastes of people who enjoy gore for gore's sake, and in my opinion, that's all MZ had to offer. Now, whether or not you think MZ qualifies as such is a different matter, but as far as I can see...there really wasn't much of another point to the whole series.

EDIT: "The Walking Dead", conversely, actually has substance to it, and I would agree with MadGoblin that while it is intense, it's not GFGS.
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Postby CyberGhostface » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:24 pm

If you want to see gore for gore's sake, you should check out Avatar's horror line. While I wouldn't call Marvel Zombies 'tame' by any stretch of the imagination, its far less graphic than George Romero's zombie films and in a lot of cases, they don't show as nearly as much as they could have. (For example, when Spider-Man attacks his wife and aunt in Dead Days-- we see him being overcome by the hunger and lunging at them, and when we next see him he's hunched over and eating them but we don't see anything too graphic--no entrails being pulled out, no limbs being ripped apart, etc). I've never been disgusted or nauseated.

I mean, if it was just scenes of zombies eating people in graphic detail...then yeah, there'd be no enjoyment to be had. But just seeing the Marvel heroes as zombies bickering at each other and playing cards or whatnot is pretty funny.

And although the first arc was a bit simplistic in terms of plot, the sequel is more plot and character driven.
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Postby Wichmann » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:33 pm

Darn, I simply can't afford Spider-girl. Apparently even the specialized shops sell them, so I would have to mail order them. But... did you know that ALL of the the first 100 numbers of spidergirl are available as trades? I saw them on Forbidden Planet.
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Re: nice article

Postby Thanos6 » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:28 am

MadGoblin wrote:Thanos your point is well taken on the absence of a qualifier of sorts in front of left wing. You're not saying that everyone on the left believes like Catherine McKinnon or Melissa Etheridge? [smilie=greengoblin.gif]


No more than everyone on the right believes like Rush Limbaugh and Fred Phelps. :)
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Postby nothlit86 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:17 am

Scarlet Spider was alive on zombie world.....he just can't catch a break. (I believe he showed up in a group shot in dead days)

Man every time I read an issue of zombies I just wanted a hero to come kill them. At least it was fun to read the marvel zombies/evil dead crossover.
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