Spider-Man 3 Review Part 2

Discuss your thoughts on the articles written by J.R. Fettinger from the www.spideykicksbutt.com website.

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Spider-Man 3 Review Part 2

Postby MadGoblin » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:01 am

So - tell me what you think!

Spider-Man 3 Review Part 2
Last edited by MadGoblin on Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby SheriffOfCoffeeTown » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:16 pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this movie has a bit too much vitriol towards it; honestly, it's my favorite of the trilogy. Having said that...

I hated the part with Harry's butler, not just because of how forced it seemed, but because it would have been much cooler to have Harry encounter his father's "ghost" one last time, and finally denounce him. It would have made Harry a much stronger character, in my opinion, if he'd finally decided: "Okay, maybe Pete killed my dad, maybe he didn't. But Pete's still a hero, and I should help him." Instead, Harry has to have everything spelled out for him.

Granted, Harry was cool enough in this movie that I could overlook that. The pie scene was awesome.

Now, I thought Emo Peter dancing in the streets was great, although I've come to find that it's pretty hit or miss with others I've talked to. Still, I don't think that showing Peter getting grim and gritty on various punks would have been the right angle to take, because he's still the hero, and there's only an hour or less in the film to redeem him by that time. He's only really violent in three scenes, but he makes them count. I wince when he shoves Sandman's face against the moving train.

The constant complaint I've had throughout the trilogy is Dunst's MJ. I just don't like her. She's whiny and annoying, and I'm still kind of pissed that she blew off John Jameson in the last film.

The Venom voice I find to be problematic, because "Venom" doesn't talk so much as Eddie Brock does. When he makes his pact with the Sandman, and he's in full Venom mode, his voice is somewhat different, but he almost immediately reveals his human face while he's talking.

When he actually is Venom, he doesn't say much, but I did like his various screeches, hissing, and the alien laugh. Having said that, I wish that they'd gone with the animated series's method of Venom "unmasking", where his mouth opens, and keeps opening to reveal his human face beneath. I think that would have looked incredibly creepy in live action.

Finally, I wouldn't have killed Eddie Brock. The symbiote? Of course. But I think it would have been a lot more interesting to see Brock hauled away, similar to Harry Osborn at the end of Spectacular 189, ranting and raving about possible revenge. Then again, apparently deals are already being made to do a Venom spin-off, so I guess being disintegrated isn't enough to keep Eddie down.
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Postby Venom65437 » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:16 pm

I agree with you about people drinkin' the haterade on the movie. I liked it a lot. Is it my favorite? Well... I don't know about that, even if it has Venom.

Anyway, I'm real glad you made the point about Peter crying. Ugh, those scenes are so hard to watch, when I was watching the DVD I literally had to turn away. I just couldn't take it!

Emo Peter dancing was hilarious for all the wrong reasons. I too, would of rather seen Peter go out as Spider-Man and really curbstomp some bad guys. It seemed the symbiote gave Peter PMS more than turning him into a bad guy.

I have no strong feelings either way about Kirsten, but I'd still nail her. LoL. :lol:

I also thought Venom should of had a "creepier" voice. I thought the 90s toon did a good job with giving him a somewhat creepy, alien voice.

I don't know who I want to be the bad guy in Spidey 4. The Lizard is a possibility. Of course, Connors still has a part of the Venom costume, so they could bring Venom back if they want. Someone like Electro would be cool too. Sure he hasn't been a real big deal in the comics, but he could in the movies. His power level is off the charts.
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Postby Thanos6 » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:46 pm

Another great review, JR, and I pretty much completely agree, especially about Kirsten Dunst. My dislike for her MJ is so strong it's starting to color my perception of the comic MJ (never my favorite of Peter's girlfriends to begin with). He should get together with Betty.

Just a couple of things:

The HobGoblin is out of the question since there have been two Goblins already


If they chose to try the "one plot two movies" route like they almost did with 3, I could see them making a Hobgoblin mystery that stretches out over, say, movies 5 and 6. Keep the actual actor who plays him top secret with lots of decoys. Be sure to throw in Kingsley, Leeds, and Macendale, so that even fanboys won't be able to peg the villain right off. Have a climactic fight at the end of 5 that ends with, say, Hobby unmasked as Leeds and dying...and then right before we hit credits, we find out the REAL Hobby is still out there.

Now, Doctor Octopus as the Master Planner - that has possibilities. For one, rather than increasingly outlandish accidents bestowing dubious superpowers, Ock could be creating supervillains deliberately, ultimately forming his own �Sinister Six.� It would allow Alfred Molina to do some serious scenery chewing and give us a more maniacal and diabolical Doc Ock than we saw in the second film.


That could be interesting; mind, you'd have to explain why he goes evil again after choosing the path of good at the end of number 2. Perhaps brain damage from nearly drowning?

Stan Lee�s moment is corny? �I guess one person can make a difference. Nuff said!� Yes, it certainly is, and yes, it does take you out of the picture a little bit. But come on! It's Stan Lee talking to Spider-Man (or Peter Parker)! It�s not a Marvel movie without Stan Lee showing up somewhere, whether as Willie Lumpkin in the first Fantastic Four, a hot dog vendor in X-Men, saving girls from falling debris in Spider-Man 1 & 2, an obviously too old security guard (Hulk - along with Lou Ferrigno), or in his best turn yet, trying to crash Reed and Sue�s wedding as himself (Fantastic Four 2) without an invite.


Heh. I'm sure you're aware, but for those who aren't: Stan being turned away from Reed and Sue's wedding mirrors what happened at the wedding in the comics; they wouldn't let Stan or Jack Kirby in.

Oh, and you forgot his Daredevil role in which Matt Murdock keeps him from being hit by a truck.
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Postby Janoe-42 » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:08 pm

I really like the ideas for the future movies. The Kingpin or a similar character is practically a given but Doc Ock as Master Planner or Doc Ock creating his own Sinister Six definitely has possibilities if executed correctly (mostly the execution of it would depend on a logical reason about how Ock survived the end of Spidey 2 and, like Thanos said, why Ock chose evil again).
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Postby ShriekoftheVulture » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:14 pm

Well MadGoblin. That was a nice review. I agree with many of the things you said and I really didn't think this movie was as bad as everyone says. Though there are a few things I must point out that I hope you can answer.

First off. You said you liked Spider-Man 3 better than Spider-Man 2. In the second part of the review I was expecting something like "Despite these flaws, I actually like SM3 better than the more well liked SM2 becaese.." But you didn't really explain why you liked the third film more than the second one. In fact, it seemed you had more negative things to say about this one.

Also,

The Harry/MJ scenes in the middle of the film last far too long. A judicious cut, probably of the entire cooking and dancing scene (there was a lotta bad dancing in this movie), would have helped. The hard core fans already know that Harry and MJ dated in the past, and that Harry nurtured hurt feelings as a result of her taking up with Peter. And even the uninitiated could probably tell from Harry's goofy smile in the hospital when MJ walks in, and the scene with the two in the park waiting for Spider-Man to receive the key to the city, that Harry has feelings for her. It doesn't require a long cooking and dancing scene, and a royalty to Chubby Checker, to establish the existence of dormant romantic feelings.


But we hardly saw Harry and Mary Jane interact in the first movie. So I thought it was nice that they established the connection. Not to mention both actors were rather bland in the first movie and their relationship was pretty much non existant.


Even worse, at the end, when the screen goes black after Peter and Mary Jane embrace, the score lapses into weak, unremarkable music that resulted in me leaving the theater totally uninspired. I admit to being partial to loud, angst-ridden tunes like “Hero” that starts the credit roll ending the first film (still the best song of any on the Spider-Man soundtracks), and the lesser, but still goosebump inducing “Vindicated” at the end of the second. Also, those films each ended with a rendition of the “Spider-Man theme” from the 60’s cartoon show, the first had the classic rendition and the second a jazzy turn by singer Michael Buble. However, all we got this time around was a barely perceptible rendering by a high school band during the key to the city ceremony. “Spider-Man, Spider-Man, does whatever a spider can” IS Spidey’s official theme – and should have found its way into the closing credits sequence, even it was the Ramones remix, which is not a favorite of mine, but is very popular with Spidey fans



But the ending of Spider-Man 3 is supposed to be a rather bittersweet, somber ending. Due to Harry's death and Peter just having fought the darkness within himself. Putting a loud, rock type song like Hero or putting the Spider-Man theme in the beginning of the credits would have ruined the tone and mood of the ending. That's also why the movie ended with Peter and MJ sadly embracing instead of Peter swinging through the streets shouting "Whoo" Whoo hoo!" and the heroic Spider-Man theme playing, because it wouldn't have meshed with the more somber ending.

Peter picks the wrong girl - not once, not twice, but three times. Now, whether or not another person is attractive is truly a judgment in the eye of the beholder. Kirsten Dunst is a target for abuse by many because of her asinine public statements (making a disparaging comment about being the subject of 9 year old boys’ wet dreams, saying the 4th movie would be a disaster without Raimi, Tobey, and herself, letting spoilers out of the bag, etc.) and is often seen on the streets not looking her best, probably a mistake in a celebrity obsessed culture where your mug can distributed around the world at light speed. That said, I simply find Bryce Dallas Howard (Gwen Stacy) and Elizabeth Banks (Betty Brant) far more appealing, both in character than out, than I do Kirsten Dunst as herself or as Mary Jane Watson. And I suspect I’m not alone – and sadly, that’s NOT what we should be thinking. We should want Peter and MJ to get together and stay together - not thinking "Geez Peter - dump that spoiled, self-centered whiny bitch and be the meat in a Gwen & Betty Sandwich." I’ve always been a big booster of the Peter/MJ marriage in the comic books, but I don’t care if they ever get together again in the films because I just don’t like movie MJ.


LOL. Totally agree with you. I felt the same in the cartoon as well.
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Postby MadGoblin » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:12 pm

ShriekoftheVulture wrote:Well MadGoblin. That was a nice review. I agree with many of the things you said and I really didn't think this movie was as bad as everyone says. Though there are a few things I must point out that I hope you can answer.

First off. You said you liked Spider-Man 3 better than Spider-Man 2. In the second part of the review I was expecting something like "Despite these flaws, I actually like SM3 better than the more well liked SM2 becaese.." But you didn't really explain why you liked the third film more than the second one. In fact, it seemed you had more negative things to say about this one.


Good point. Sometimes when one rambles endlessly like I do, I'm so familiar (or bored) with what I'm saying I don't always realize I don't make myself clear. Basically, I thought that the second film had a very soft middle, bordering on becoming boring. I thought the third film, while dragging at first, picked up steam and had a much better superhero/supervillain fight finale. And the end of the second film is a bit tainted because I wasn't as "thrilled" that MJ dumped her fiance for Peter as the filmmakers thought I should be.

Also,

ShriekoftheVulture wrote:
The Harry/MJ scenes in the middle of the film last far too long. A judicious cut, probably of the entire cooking and dancing scene (there was a lotta bad dancing in this movie), would have helped. The hard core fans already know that Harry and MJ dated in the past, and that Harry nurtured hurt feelings as a result of her taking up with Peter. And even the uninitiated could probably tell from Harry's goofy smile in the hospital when MJ walks in, and the scene with the two in the park waiting for Spider-Man to receive the key to the city, that Harry has feelings for her. It doesn't require a long cooking and dancing scene, and a royalty to Chubby Checker, to establish the existence of dormant romantic feelings.



But we hardly saw Harry and Mary Jane interact in the first movie. So I thought it was nice that they established the connection. Not to mention both actors were rather bland in the first movie and their relationship was pretty much non existant.



I didn't think the first film was necessary to understand the relationship. It just seemed to me that the interaction in those two scenes early in the third film between Harry and MJ told us that here were two people who liked each other and shared a certain kind of loneliness. MJ felt Peter wasn't there for her - and we see Harry asking the butler if he has any girlfriends, and then later just painting - because he clearly has no other friends to be with.

ShriekoftheVulture wrote:
Even worse, at the end, when the screen goes black after Peter and Mary Jane embrace, the score lapses into weak, unremarkable music that resulted in me leaving the theater totally uninspired. I admit to being partial to loud, angst-ridden tunes like “Hero” that starts the credit roll ending the first film (still the best song of any on the Spider-Man soundtracks), and the lesser, but still goosebump inducing “Vindicated” at the end of the second. Also, those films each ended with a rendition of the “Spider-Man theme” from the 60’s cartoon show, the first had the classic rendition and the second a jazzy turn by singer Michael Buble. However, all we got this time around was a barely perceptible rendering by a high school band during the key to the city ceremony. “Spider-Man, Spider-Man, does whatever a spider can” IS Spidey’s official theme – and should have found its way into the closing credits sequence, even it was the Ramones remix, which is not a favorite of mine, but is very popular with Spidey fans



But the ending of Spider-Man 3 is supposed to be a rather bittersweet, somber ending. Due to Harry's death and Peter just having fought the darkness within himself. Putting a loud, rock type song like Hero or putting the Spider-Man theme in the beginning of the credits would have ruined the tone and mood of the ending. That's also why the movie ended with Peter and MJ sadly embracing instead of Peter swinging through the streets shouting "Whoo" Whoo hoo!" and the heroic Spider-Man theme playing, because it wouldn't have meshed with the more somber ending.


I understand that - but even with a somber ending, there are probably songs out there that can punch you in the gut and intensify whatever emotions you are feeling when the screen goes dark. This was just blah and boring. Again, that's a personal preference - I like songs that scream "PAIN!" not "ouch."
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Postby Thanos6 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:54 pm

Oh, one another thing, JR:

However, during one of my viewings of the film in a theater, when Tobey begins to cry as Harry dies, laughter rippled through the audience. Looking back, maybe it isn�t the actual crying as much as it is Tobey not convincingly pulling it off.


To be honest, I think that part came off a bit, well...slashy. I'm not one to see slash/yaoi in every male/male friendship, and I certainly didn't see it in Harry/Peter...but that last scene almost seemed like it, or a parody of it. On repeat viewings I've almost laughed myself.

(Trunks and Goten, the guys in my avatar, completely different story. Slashy out the yin-yang)
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Postby Keny from Prague » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:25 pm

Great Review, Madgoblin. It seems most agree that this film wasnt given a fair shake. It does feel like they were trying to wrap up all the loose ends, tho.

i really liked your idea of Dr. Ock comming back and recruiting a sinister 6 type of team to go after spidey. (although it would take a bit away from his redemption at the end of #2, but they have already messed up with the uncle ben/sandman junk)
but thed have to cut it down to a sinister 3 or something.

Id vote for electro and the vulture in the next one (maybe lizard) electro is kindof a joke in the comics but hes so powerful he should be tough to defeat even if he is kindof a one trick pony. also im afraid his costume might look silly in real life.

i liked the dark pete. i agree that i wouldnt have been comfortable with him beating up crooks to excess. it was enough to show us his change in personality.

I also agree ursula is the best girl for pete. i even thought that during the second one. it would never happen since shes not in the comics or played by a famous actress.

thanks for getting me excited about spidey 4. I kinda wish instead of the numerals they would have named each successive spidey film after the titles of some of the comics. Spidey 1 could have been "Amazing Spiderman", 2 "Spectacular Spiderman" and so forth rather than the bland numbers.

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Postby Keny from Prague » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:22 am

ps. I found the actor who played venom to have an unbelievably annoying nasal voice making him not scary just irritating.
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Postby BD » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:12 am

I just found this JR, Ebert is on your side.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbc ... /711150305
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Postby MadGoblin » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:36 am

I'd be remiss if I didn't welcome "Keny from Prague" to the Crawlspace and SKB - coming all the way from Eastern Europe!
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Postby SheriffOfCoffeeTown » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:15 pm

Thanos6 wrote:If they chose to try the "one plot two movies" route like they almost did with 3, I could see them making a Hobgoblin mystery that stretches out over, say, movies 5 and 6.


I really, really hope they don't do that. PotC: Dead Man's Chest and The Matrix: Reloaded were incredibly boring movies. You could tell that they were just stalling for time or showing off their special effects to the detriment of the film's pacing.

I'd much rather have a movie that tries to fit too much in than a movie that stretches too little plot out. (Actually, I'd rather have a nice, evenly paced movie, but if that's not an option...)
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Postby Wombat 909 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:58 pm

I just read the whole article over now and I noticed that in the paragraph about you stating where did the suit come from, you mentioned a crawlspace poster (not by name) that noticed that he just ripped of the suit in the bell tower.
I'm a fan of your site for life now JR :D
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thanks, Goblin

Postby Keny from Prague » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:34 am

I appreciate your welcome, thanks:-)

I really enjoy your website. I was quite happy to have found it. I was in a kind of Spidey movie mood, since my wife bought me Spidey 1 as a present last week.

Keny

PS: just a little geography correction. Prague is in Central Europe

thanks
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