Super Colossal Giant Size Massive Venom Update!

Discuss your thoughts on the articles written by J.R. Fettinger from the www.spideykicksbutt.com website.

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Postby BD » Mon May 21, 2007 12:27 am

Yeah JR, we need a new article. It's been March since the last one came out. We need our Spidey Kicks Butt fix.
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Postby Chuckles » Tue May 29, 2007 12:26 pm

MadGoblin wrote:
Chuckles wrote:Very nice, very intriguing, although there's a couple of minor typos (and a brief, unexplained intrusion of politics into our nice little private world).


Where?


Mostly this bit:

Now here's the thing - I actually agree with Brock's brand of justice. If I saw Charles Bronson running from the cops after plugging some vile no good dope fiend crackheaded commie terrorist puppy kicking gangbanging scum, I'd give him cab fare or a subway token to get away.
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Postby MadGoblin » Tue May 29, 2007 4:05 pm

Chuckles wrote:
MadGoblin wrote:
Chuckles wrote:Very nice, very intriguing, although there's a couple of minor typos (and a brief, unexplained intrusion of politics into our nice little private world).


Where?


Mostly this bit:

Now here's the thing - I actually agree with Brock's brand of justice. If I saw Charles Bronson running from the cops after plugging some vile no good dope fiend crackheaded commie terrorist puppy kicking gangbanging scum, I'd give him cab fare or a subway token to get away.


How is that political? You mean you wouldn't do the same?
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Postby CrazyChris » Tue May 29, 2007 8:51 pm

Obviously that statement isn't meant to be taken entirely literally, but it's a very bold political statement to say that the breaking of society's laws for dealing with criminals should be encouraged and even assisted. I assume that most people wouldn't want to live in a community where every citizen gets to be their own arbiter of justice, deciding who is guilty, who is innocent, and who gets to live or die. That would be anarchy. Even if the criminal justice system has its flaws, it's better than a vigilante system. If every individual got to decide what criteria need be satisfied for a person to get shot by another civilian, then it would be just as easy for someone to decide you or someone you love deserved to die. The criminal justice system is there to protect you from that. Any deficiencies should be rectified through the legitemate, legal channels (or at least by some nonviolent means; there's a reason we honor Martin Luther King Day and not a day for abolitionist John Brown, for example), not by ignoring the system alltogether.

So I for one would certainly not do the same. If there were enough evidence to conclude that this person was guilty of terrorism (the only offense you listed conceivably worthy of the death penalty) with enough confidence to shoot the guy on the spot for it, then one should have no trouble getting him convicted in a court of law. In the United States of America, everyone is entitled to be judged by a jury of their peers. To deprive someone of that chance by killing him would be not only be an act of murder just as reprehensible as one committed under any other circumstances, but it would also be an affront to one of the things that makes this country and other democracies like it great.

But unlike Chuckles, I don't think statements like those should be avoided. We live in a political world, and it is imposible and foolish to try and weed politics out of any type of art, including comics and essays, because those things inherently reflect the perceptions and biases of the creator. Anyone who think politics can be taken out of anything creative are deluding themselves, because by choosing which subjects should be avoided one is already making a political value judgement. People should be open and unapologetic about their opinions, and being constantly barraged by new and difficult ideas is the only way to grow intellectually. I can somewhat understand why people would want to shield themselves from that in their entertainment, but like I said such attempts create only an illusion of neutrality, so I'd hate for my comics or the essays I read to be dumbed down to that level.
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Postby MadGoblin » Wed May 30, 2007 6:35 am

CrazyChris wrote:Obviously that statement isn't meant to be taken entirely literally....



Bingo.

Still, puppy-kickers deserve whatever harsh justice they get...
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Postby Venom_Dude » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:44 pm

very very good i was blown away.
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Postby CrazyChris » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 am

So in the new Sensational, it turns out Peter Parker took the pictures for the Bugle article that revealed Eddie's Sin-Eater story to be a fraud, giving him a sort of semi-reasonable reason to resent our hero (resentment that th symbiote could turn into irrational rage). Is this a new retcon, or did we know that tidbit before?

Also, it says that Brock was actually killing himself inside the church when the symbiote "interrupted" the attempt. Looking at Amazing 300, it says Brock was praying for forgiveness (presumably for past suicide attempts or maybe just thoughts) when it happened. Is this a new retcon, or has someone else already said he was actually attempting suicide in the church?

I actually like the original story better. There's something about a man whose prayers in his darkest hour are answered not by God, but by what is in effect a demon who possesses him, that makes a chilling horror story.
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Postby MadGoblin » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:35 am

CrazyChris wrote:So in the new Sensational, it turns out Peter Parker took the pictures for the Bugle article that revealed Eddie's Sin-Eater story to be a fraud, giving him a sort of semi-reasonable reason to resent our hero (resentment that th symbiote could turn into irrational rage). Is this a new retcon, or did we know that tidbit before?

Also, it says that Brock was actually killing himself inside the church when the symbiote "interrupted" the attempt. Looking at Amazing 300, it says Brock was praying for forgiveness (presumably for past suicide attempts or maybe just thoughts) when it happened. Is this a new retcon, or has someone else already said he was actually attempting suicide in the church?

I actually like the original story better. There's something about a man whose prayers in his darkest hour are answered not by God, but by what is in effect a demon who possesses him, that makes a chilling horror story.


Sadly, both are retcons. "Peter Parker" was never part of Brock's original motivations. And while Brock WANTED to commit suicide, he didn't because that's a big sin for Catholics - and Paul Jenkins came up with the retcon that Eddie was dying anyway from cancer.

Venom's comic book origins are just a flat out mess - and any tinkering with it in the comics just makes it messier.
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Postby CrazyChris » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:41 pm

I don't know, maybe a little tinkering is necessary. Judging by the fact that half of the names of posters on this board are some variation of "venom", he's still one of Marvel's most popular villains. So if Venom can be made into a compelling character featured in stories worth reading, then everyone wins, right? People want Venom to work as a character. If subtly adjusting his story in a few choice places is what it takes to sort through the baggage and harmonize the conflicting portrayals of him (i.e. is he a psychopath with the twisted pretence of morality, or is he an anti-hero with a real moral code?), then wouldn't it be worth it?

I don't exactly want blatant continuity errors. What I want is for a writer to give us a picture of Venom's character arc as a whole and help us make sense of it maybe by adding some details and deemphasizing others, but not by contradicting anything. If there are too many contradictions already inherent in the character for that to be possible, then I'd at least like someone to skillfully give us a difinative answer to those questions. I think Aguirre-Sacasa is doing that in this story. I really like the scene where Eddie asks the symbiote hallucination "I/we vowed to preserve the lives of the innocent ... didn't we", and the symbiote (which isn't really the symbiote, but the part of Eddie's psyche that wants to be a murderous sociopath) tells him "yes Eddie, we did, we did..." but (to paraphrase) no one is truly innocent, so we should kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out. I think showing these two sides of his personality in conflict did a lot to make sense of the different directions Venom's character has been pulled in.

But I don't feel the same about Sacasa's reinterpretation that it was "Parker" who Venom hated, and not just Spider-Man. It seems like just a way to make his character a little more like movie Venom. Raimi's Venom was a nice twist for a new continuity, but part of what makes comic Venom so interesting is that he hates Spider-Man, but since he learned the secret identity he can use Peter Parker's personal life (friends, family) to get to Spider-Man.
Last edited by CrazyChris on Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CrazyChris » Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:59 am

Did anyone else notice how heavily parallelism and repetition are used in the new SSM, especially in the symbiote's lines?

"Did you think we were through? Did you think you'd be able to get rid of me that easily?"

"Yes Eddie, we did, we did..."

"It's Life and death time, Eddie ... moment of truth time."

"Here's the bitter, bitter truth, Eddie"

"Not his wife, not his aunt"

"Unwrap it Eddie. Unwrap it and put it on!!!"

"Looking good, Eddie, looking real good."


See my point? Surely these literary devices are meant to reinforce Venom's dual nature. Kinda cool, huh? It sucks that Roberto is being cancelled when his work warrants this level of criticism, doesn't it?
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