Now Up - Beginning the Series that YOU demanded!

Discuss your thoughts on the articles written by J.R. Fettinger from the www.spideykicksbutt.com website.

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gregxb
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Post by gregxb » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:27 pm

Nice article... count me in as someone else who dislikes Venom, but this was a good read.

I must be an abberation. I was born in 81. Really started reading Spider-Man in the 90s... and I love Green Goblin.

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Post by Arachknight1979 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:03 pm

gregxb wrote:
I must be an abberation. I was born in 81. Really started reading Spider-Man in the 90s... and I love Green Goblin.
If you are youre not the only one. I was born in '79, I started reading Spidey in 1990, and I personally like the Spider-man stories of the 70's and early to mid 80's the best.
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Post by MsMarvel1 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:17 pm

[delurks once more]

I must admit, I was initially a bit bummed about the break from Harry because 1.) I love Harry and 2.) "The Child Within" is probably my favorite Spider-Man story (although I re-read it recently and found it played much better when I was angst-ridden 11-13-year-old who was intrigued by the weird proclivity J.M. DeMatteis had for having men pet each other's hair and crawl around naked, but I digress ...) and I did want to hear what you thought about it, even though I know you don't like it very much.

However, I have to say I really liked this article. As a 90s kid, Venom was one of the first villains I was exposed to, and while the character bugs me now, especially in his most recent appearances, the article actually reminded me how much I liked his sense of humor and overall scary badass-ness when he initially came out.

Oh, and since we're all doing the unofficial survey, put me down for "Grew up in the 90s, likes the Harry Osborn Green Goblin best." And I like Ben Reilly, but don't love him. And the Clone Saga makes my tummy hurt, even if I consider "The Shrieking" a guilty pleasure and rather like "Lifetheft".

[stops oversharing and goes back to lurking]

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Post by Echowarrior » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:17 pm

Read the article and liked it, and very much looking forward to the next installment.

That said, I was always kinda ambivalent about Venom. On the one hand, yeah, he's pretty much Spidey's equal and opposite, and thus makes for a great villain. On the other...well, let's just say that I like his TV origin much better than the comic origin.

Though I'll say right now that I find the Gargan Venom to be much more fun a character.
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Post by Janoe-42 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:39 pm

The only problem with Venom is what others have stated; he was rushed and overexposed. I have to admit, I still like Venom (and even Carnage) but Marvel jumped the shark once he started appearing every 3 months...As for Green Goblin/Venom, I like both pretty much equal.

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Post by slave83b » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:00 pm

Man, I NEVER thought I'd see a Venom article from you, much less a series! What's next? An in-depth analysis of Maximum Carnage?

All kidding aside, it was a good article. Some of the behind the scenes stuff was particularly interesting (as hard as it is to imagine now, the original female version of Venom would have been pretty neat to see).

One thing I would like to bring up is the section where you compare Eddie Brock's reasons for hating Spider-Man to those of Norman Osborn and Doc Ock. Specifically, I would like to point out that of the classic villains, the one with probably the weakest reasoning behind his hatred for Spidey is none other that Mac Gargan. Seems somehow appropriate doesn't it? Anyway, what I'm getting at is that as half-baked as Eddie's rationale for hating Peter is (I like Venom, and even I can admit that!), at least he has one. Gargan on the other hand does not. While he has every reason to hate JJJ, his only real reason to hate Peter is the fact that he keeps getting in the way when Gargan goes after Jameson. Granted Scorpy's completely insane, but none of these villains are exactly poster children for mental health.

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Post by MadGoblin » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:05 pm

Everyone - thanks for the reaction to this article. You certainly justified my decision to do a Venom series sooner rather than later
slave83b wrote: What's next? An in-depth analysis of Maximum Carnage?
Don't laugh - but Maximum Carnage will be discussed in this series. It'll probably be a while before you see it since it doesn't look like it will make Part 2.
MsMarvel1 wrote:The Child Within" is probably my favorite Spider-Man story (although I re-read it recently and found it played much better when I was angst-ridden 11-13-year-old who was intrigued by the weird proclivity J.M. DeMatteis had for having men pet each other's hair and crawl around naked, but I digress ...) and I did want to hear what you thought about it, even though I know you don't like it very much.
After Venom Part 2 - we're back to Harry, and "Child Within" will be the first story up
Itsjustme wrote:However your tendancy to switch between critizing Venom and then defending him leady one with more than one personality.


If I read you right, you're saying the article came across a little schizo in switching back and forth. I think that it'll make a little more sense when the whole series is done - we'll see that Venom really didn't start out as any lamer relative to motivations than any of Spidey's other supervillains - but then rather than being properly developed - Marvel just dropped the ball completely on him.

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Post by slave83b » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:14 pm

MadGoblin wrote:
slave83b wrote: What's next? An in-depth analysis of Maximum Carnage?
Don't laugh - but Maximum Carnage will be discussed in this series. It'll probably be a while before you see it since it doesn't look like it will make Part 2.
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Post by Itsjustme » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:52 pm

yeah you read me right, that's what I get for not checking my spelling. so much for my witty comments.
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Post by Thanos6 » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:04 pm

JR, go ahead and crucify me, but--I actually enjoy Maximum Carnage as a guilty pleasure. :oops:

Probably because I was only 9 or so when it came out and it was my first real Spidey crossover and the moral lessons were, to my young self, "deep."

Also, the fight scenes ruled.

But even at 9 I could sense overkill. Maximum Carnage was fine; but then having Carnage as the villain in that year's AMAZING Annual, well, even then I knew that was too much.

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Post by The Punisher » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:00 pm

very interesting discussion, my favorite Spidey villian is the Green Goblin with Venom coming a close second :)
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Post by slave83b » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:31 pm

Thanos6 wrote:JR, go ahead and crucify me, but--I actually enjoy Maximum Carnage as a guilty pleasure. :oops:

Probably because I was only 9 or so when it came out and it was my first real Spidey crossover and the moral lessons were, to my young self, "deep."

Also, the fight scenes ruled.

But even at 9 I could sense overkill. Maximum Carnage was fine; but then having Carnage as the villain in that year's AMAZING Annual, well, even then I knew that was too much.
I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but this post touches on what I think is the problem with Carnage.

It's essentially the same problems Venom has, only amplified by the fact that Venom existed (let's be honest, if you don't like one, you aren't likely to like the other). In Carnage, I see a character who stems from a cool concept (hear me out!) but was mishandled to the point of ruin.

The way I see it, the connection between Venom and Carnage mirrors the one between Venom and Spidey, particularly in regard to the notion that Venom is "great power with no responsibility". Basically, what it boils down to is the idea that Venom, when all is said and done, has at least some sort of twisted sense of morality holding him in check (or at least he likes to think he does). Carnage, by contrast, holds no such illusions. He is a pure sociopath with a symbiote to drive up his kill count in all sorts of creative ways. Not a particularly horrible idea, but very easy to screw up. And, as we all know, the fact that the "sociopath with a symbiote" element was so central to the character contributed much to its creative decline, and in record time no less.

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Post by F.N. Spider-Man » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:05 pm

As always, the article was informative. However, I have to get clarification on something that was written in the very beginning of the article, in reference to Venom:

"He is the only Spider-Man villain to have had his own series (or series of limited series - whatever you want to call them)."

I would contend that the Punisher (a Spider-Man villain) most certainly has his own series, or series of limited series - whatever you want to call them (I know, I'm a smart-ass). One could argue that the Punisher, in this day and age, is no longer a villain. However, when he was first introduced (Amazing #129), the Punisher was undeniably a villain.
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Post by Kevin Cushing » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:34 pm

Morbius is also undeniably a Spidey villain, and he starred in Adventure into Fear: A Man Called Morbius for 11 issues, followed by an impressive 32 issue run of Morbius: The Living Vampire.
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Post by MadGoblin » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:55 pm

Morbius wrote:Morbius is also undeniably a Spidey villain, and he starred in Adventure into Fear: A Man Called Morbius for 11 issues, followed by an impressive 32 issue run of Morbius: The Living Vampire.
I stand corrected on Morbius. I would dispute the Punisher being a villain, even starting out - since Spidey didn't haul his butt off to jail at the end of his debut issue, and even in his second appearance, the two worked together against the Tarantula.

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