Goblin Prince Part 8 - Goblin Squared is now posted!

Discuss your thoughts on the articles written by J.R. Fettinger from the www.spideykicksbutt.com website.

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Goblin Prince Part 8 - Goblin Squared is now posted!

Postby MadGoblin » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:17 pm

You have Brad to thank - I was going to wait until they were all done, but he conned me into releasing the first one before the holidays. So go ahead and take a gander at The Goblin Prince Part 8 - Goblin Squared.

And please be kind. I've been a little rusty
Last edited by MadGoblin on Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Venom65437 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:09 pm

Kick ass! I'm going to read it right now! I've been waiting for a new article from you!
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Postby Venom65437 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:38 pm

Ok, I just finished reading it. I thought you did well... a few errors that a spell check wouldn't catch, but who isn't guilty of that sometimes?

I really enjoyed this, and this series. I'm learning a lot about a period of Spidey history I'd have no chance to learn about otherwise. After all a lot of stuff you discuss isn't in an essential, or in a format easy to get a hold of (or afford!)

Liked this a lot! I can't wait for the next part.
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Postby MadGoblin » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:39 am

Venom65437 wrote:Ok, I just finished reading it. I thought you did well... a few errors that a spell check wouldn't catch, but who isn't guilty of that sometimes?


I-yi-yi - I posted the article before my last perfectionist scrubdown - but after printing it out and reading it again went through and corrected several errors (like saying "Shea Stadium is big" twice) late last night - but if there are more, send me a PM with what they are (otherwise this thread would probably seem like English class). So much for my Southern Hoosier education... :wink:
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Postby Venom65437 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:31 am

I'd have to read it again to point them out... but one off the top of my head I believe you say "that" when you clearly mean "than" or maybe "then" I don't remember the sentence.

I have to go to bed now, but perhaps I will take another look when I wake up!

I was just trying to be funny, the errors are no big deal :wink:, it was a great read MG, glad you're back!
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Postby Thanos6 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:07 am

What a lovely early Christmas present! I've always found Dr. Hamilton to be an interesting Goblin and wish he'd come back in SOME form or another.

Just one thing:

According to Roddy Kingsley, Norman’s journals ended just before the events of Amazing Spider-Man #39, when he was on his way to discover Spider-Man’s secret identity.


What's the source for that? I always thought Spidey just got incredibly extremely lucky when all of Norman's journals got burned up in the fire started by him and Roddy during their Amazing #250 fight, and that if Kingsley had had time to keep reading he would have found the ID.

(Roddy knowing his ID, and no Norman around to get in his way...Spidey would have been dead meat...Kingsley probably would have just hired all the mercenary type supervillains he could find and launch a damn war on the Parker home)

Also, about the "Sonic Toad"; I remember Norman using a similar weapon in their second fight in the Lee/Ditko days...the one that took place at the meeting of the Spider-Man fan club that Flash and Liz and Betty and the Human Torch were at...he used a toad of some kind to sever Spidey's webline.
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Postby Venom65437 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:16 pm

That Sonic Toad was hilarious.... way too much for me. Haha.
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Postby MadGoblin » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:10 pm

Thanos6 wrote:Just one thing:

According to Roddy Kingsley, Norman’s journals ended just before the events of Amazing Spider-Man #39, when he was on his way to discover Spider-Man’s secret identity.


What's the source for that? I always thought Spidey just got incredibly extremely lucky when all of Norman's journals got burned up in the fire started by him and Roddy during their Amazing #250 fight, and that if Kingsley had had time to keep reading he would have found the ID.


In issue #250, the HobGoblin says that "the final entry tells of a plan Osborn had to use that gas as a tool to expose Spider-Man's identity." Then we see the HobGoblin pondering whether or not Osborn had learned the secret.
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Postby Arachknight1979 » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:51 pm

First off, thanks for the early Christmas present in giving us part 8 so soon. Now on to my thoughts.


I was reading you part on Hamilton's motives and was wondering if one idea crossed your mind. That just maybe this was Norman's idea of testing Harry and trying to keep him as the Goblin.

Maybe Norman (through a middle man or middle men) had Hamilton set up as Harry's shrink. Possibly somthing in his own history made him ripe for manipulation. I could have been possable that Norman was feeding Hamilton's ego and mind with false promises of power. This seems logical giving that Hamilton seems to like money and a fancy lifestyle. Dating beautyful women, driving swanky cars ect. ect. Obviously he enjoys the perks his high paying job afords him. People like this are most easily manipulated with promises of more money, power, girls, and cars.

Maybe Norman fed Hamilton the information about Peter's clone, and of course Hamilton had Harry follow Peter. Hamilton wanting Peter out of the way for the reasons you said. It could be possable that Hamilton thought he had a friend who wanted to help him, but was instead manipulating him to reach a goal similer to what happened......Harry's ultimate return as the Green Goblin. Remember that Norman said he had given Harry his chance to "be a man". Perhaps this was the chance Norman was talking about. I doubt that after Harry's first defeat at the hands of Spider-man Norman would have just given up on him, and it was Harry's death that brought Norman out of hiding in Europe. So Norman was obviously willing to give Harry many chances. Perhaps Hamilton was a test of Harry's mettle and to get Harry to become the Green Goblin once again.


However, what Norman didn't count on was Hamiltons time spent with Harry. The effects that the hipno-therepy, and drugs that Hamilton perscribed would have on Harry's mind, and the amnesia that resulted at the end of the clash between the two. Maybe Norman ment for Harry to kill Hamilton then go after Spider-man right away, but the amnesia he suffered delayed those plans. Plans that would wait until J. M. DeMatteis returned Harry to the Goblin alter-ego:-)

I.E. Hamilton was just another pawn in Norman's sick over conviluted chess game. Just like Miles Warren. Only directed at Harry, not Peter. Peter just happened to be there.
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Postby MadGoblin » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:43 am

Arachknight1979 wrote:Maybe Norman (through a middle man or middle men) had Hamilton set up as Harry's shrink.


In Part 7, I suggested that Donald Menken, Norman's toady at Oscorp, did just that.


Possibly somthing in his own history made him ripe for manipulation. I could have been possable that Norman was feeding Hamilton's ego and mind with false promises of power. This seems logical giving that Hamilton seems to like money and a fancy lifestyle. Dating beautyful women, driving swanky cars ect. ect. Obviously he enjoys the perks his high paying job afords him. People like this are most easily manipulated with promises of more money, power, girls, and cars.

Maybe Norman fed Hamilton the information about Peter's clone, and of course Hamilton had Harry follow Peter. Hamilton wanting Peter out of the way for the reasons you said. It could be possable that Hamilton thought he had a friend who wanted to help him, but was instead manipulating him to reach a goal similer to what happened......Harry's ultimate return as the Green Goblin. Remember that Norman said he had given Harry his chance to "be a man". Perhaps this was the chance Norman was talking about. I doubt that after Harry's first defeat at the hands of Spider-man Norman would have just given up on him, and it was Harry's death that brought Norman out of hiding in Europe. So Norman was obviously willing to give Harry many chances. Perhaps Hamilton was a test of Harry's mettle and to get Harry to become the Green Goblin once again.


However, what Norman didn't count on was Hamiltons time spent with Harry. The effects that the hipno-therepy, and drugs that Hamilton perscribed would have on Harry's mind, and the amnesia that resulted at the end of the clash between the two. Maybe Norman ment for Harry to kill Hamilton then go after Spider-man right away, but the amnesia he suffered delayed those plans. Plans that would wait until J. M. DeMatteis returned Harry to the Goblin alter-ego:-)

I.E. Hamilton was just another pawn in Norman's sick over conviluted chess game. Just like Miles Warren. Only directed at Harry, not Peter. Peter just happened to be there.


Interesting speculation. I agree that Hamilton appears to be the type of personality that could be swayed by such promises and could have easily been manipulated by Osborn - the problem with the theory of Norman somehow being directly involved in Hamilton's turn as the Goblin is The Osborn Journal (February 1997). Norman directly addresses this point when he assumes that the Goblin who made the "pathetic" play for control of the underworld was Harry, but learned "only after he had been killed by an explosion" that it was Hamilton who had been the Goblin during this time. The context around this time would also seem to indicate that Norman was far more preoccupied with Miles Warren's plot to replace Peter Parker with the clone and ensuring that Warren did not ultimately usurp his own plans, thus the blackmail of Seward Trainer to rig Warren's testing equipment and to ultimately become a companion of Ben Reilly's. Even Norman's assumption that Harry had actually become the Goblin again seemed secondary to Norman's concerns about Warren and Ben Reilly, which is why I always assumed that Norman left it to Menken to handle the details of Harry's psychiatric care.
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Postby Thanos6 » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:47 am

MadGoblin wrote:
Thanos6 wrote:Just one thing:

According to Roddy Kingsley, Norman’s journals ended just before the events of Amazing Spider-Man #39, when he was on his way to discover Spider-Man’s secret identity.


What's the source for that? I always thought Spidey just got incredibly extremely lucky when all of Norman's journals got burned up in the fire started by him and Roddy during their Amazing #250 fight, and that if Kingsley had had time to keep reading he would have found the ID.


In issue #250, the HobGoblin says that "the final entry tells of a plan Osborn had to use that gas as a tool to expose Spider-Man's identity." Then we see the HobGoblin pondering whether or not Osborn had learned the secret.


Mm, that's almost a shame. I'd actually prefer that Osborn had the identity in there and Kingsley just hadn't gotten to it in time.
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