Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Big Al » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:06 pm

Cheesedique wrote:^ I didn't actually read any of Axis, but that was the story implication I got from reading the Hobgoblin mini.

As for Agent Venom, I read the first four issues or so of the Remender / Moore series--it wasn't that bad actually, a lot more grounded. Even if I don't care for the concept a lot. But making him a cosmic character now takes both Flash and Venom further away from Spider-man's world.

I like the idea of the symbiote, despite its cosmic origins, being involved in street-level crime stories, kinda like when Gargan ended up with it after the auction in Marvel Knights. Again, a compelling and grounded take on a fantastical concept.


I've never thought the symbiote's alien origins mattered. It is justification for it being as powerful as it is but honestly it's rarely been used in sci-fi stories. Venom isn't an alien Venom is the result of a deranged man abusing an immense power which coincidentally happens to originate off Earth. Saying it comes from a lab makes no real difference beyond superficial aspects.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Cheesedique » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:58 am

Big Al wrote:I've never thought the symbiote's alien origins mattered. It is justification for it being as powerful as it is but honestly it's rarely been used in sci-fi stories. Venom isn't an alien Venom is the result of a deranged man abusing an immense power which coincidentally happens to originate off Earth. Saying it comes from a lab makes no real difference beyond superficial aspects.


Agreed--what made Venom compelling to me early on was the inhabitant of the suit, who had an obsessive hatred for Spider-man. Right around when they started messing with that is when Venom went down the tubes as a character.

I do also think saying it came out of a lab like the Ultimate books (I never read the arc but I hear that's how it was written by Bendis) would be a fine way to introduce Venom into the new films. A lot better than a space glob falling out of the sky and latching onto Peter's bike as in the Raimi movie.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Joe Mercado » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:21 pm

Antiyonder wrote:The fact that they had to put more focus on a villain with his mind in Spider-Man's body (Superior SM) and a bunch of alternate reality Spider-People rather than having more back to basic stories of The Misadventures of Peter Parker suggests that without the growth had before OMD that Peter's too stale as is to remain the focus.

Even if folks like Quesada and Slott boast about how growth is a poison to attracting, their reliance on events focusing more on other characters pretty much is an admission of sort that they are wrong. Afterall, if they were right in the first place, wouldn't events be unnecessary for ASM?



I'm sad to say that The Superior Spider-man was only piece of work from Slott that I enjoyed :(
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Big Al » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:09 pm

Cheesedique wrote:
Big Al wrote:I've never thought the symbiote's alien origins mattered. It is justification for it being as powerful as it is but honestly it's rarely been used in sci-fi stories. Venom isn't an alien Venom is the result of a deranged man abusing an immense power which coincidentally happens to originate off Earth. Saying it comes from a lab makes no real difference beyond superficial aspects.


Agreed--what made Venom compelling to me early on was the inhabitant of the suit, who had an obsessive hatred for Spider-man. Right around when they started messing with that is when Venom went down the tubes as a character.

I do also think saying it came out of a lab like the Ultimate books (I never read the arc but I hear that's how it was written by Bendis) would be a fine way to introduce Venom into the new films. A lot better than a space glob falling out of the sky and latching onto Peter's bike as in the Raimi movie.


I liked the idea of Venom being this unique entity borne of the hatred of these two kindred spirits, and they transformed into a perversion of the person they hated.


I think Venom went down the tubes with the Lethal Protector stuff but was recovering until Marvel Knights happened.

Yeah for a new film a lab experiment makes sense, but the alien origins is fine and presents new storytelling oppertunities, e.g. the symbiotes having spawns.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Cheesedique » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:00 pm

Big Al wrote:
Cheesedique wrote:
Big Al wrote:I've never thought the symbiote's alien origins mattered. It is justification for it being as powerful as it is but honestly it's rarely been used in sci-fi stories. Venom isn't an alien Venom is the result of a deranged man abusing an immense power which coincidentally happens to originate off Earth. Saying it comes from a lab makes no real difference beyond superficial aspects.


Agreed--what made Venom compelling to me early on was the inhabitant of the suit, who had an obsessive hatred for Spider-man. Right around when they started messing with that is when Venom went down the tubes as a character.

I do also think saying it came out of a lab like the Ultimate books (I never read the arc but I hear that's how it was written by Bendis) would be a fine way to introduce Venom into the new films. A lot better than a space glob falling out of the sky and latching onto Peter's bike as in the Raimi movie.


I liked the idea of Venom being this unique entity borne of the hatred of these two kindred spirits, and they transformed into a perversion of the person they hated.


I think Venom went down the tubes with the Lethal Protector stuff but was recovering until Marvel Knights happened.

Yeah for a new film a lab experiment makes sense, but the alien origins is fine and presents new storytelling oppertunities, e.g. the symbiotes having spawns.


I really liked the Marvel Knights stuff, and it gave two villains, Venom and Mac Gargan the Scorpion, a new lease on life since Marvel hadn't done much with either of them in ages.

Gargan as Venom was exciting to me, at as written by Millar and Ellis.

Leave it to Slott to make both Scorpion and Venom crushingly boring again, almost in the span of 6 issues, during Big Time.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Big Al » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:33 pm

Cheesedique wrote:I really liked the Marvel Knights stuff, and it gave two villains, Venom and Mac Gargan the Scorpion, a new lease on life since Marvel hadn't done much with either of them in ages.

Gargan as Venom was exciting to me, at as written by Millar and Ellis.

Leave it to Slott to make both Scorpion and Venom crushingly boring again, almost in the span of 6 issues, during Big Time.


I liked Gargan Venom in theory, but his potential was squandered since he rarely if ever showed up as a Spider-Man villain and was just an attack dog for Norman. I prefer though for Gargan to be Scorpion and Venom to be Venom because we literally lose one good villain by combining two of them together.


In fairness Remender was the guy mainly responsible for Flash as Venom and it wasn’t a bad idea. But again it’s just an idea I don’t like. Venom as a villain works, Flash as a supporting figure works. Why take away a villain (which are hot commodities) and a great supporting character by combining them. Worse, by combining them and spinning them off. For Flash and maybe even Venom’s characters it was great. For Spider-Man though it took away two great characters and you never serve the spin-offs before you serve the parent series.


Personally I think Gargan is fine as Scorpion and I’ve been fed up with Venom NOT being a Spider-Man character/villain for years now. They’ve had their fun. At worst give the symbiote to a new character so he can be a villain, or at best actually revitalise Eddie Brock so he can viably be Venom again. Which is weirdly something which Mackie and Byrne absolutely NAILED during their otherwise shitty run. For all the crap of that era, Venom’s portrayal was actually really great. They even gave him a more plausible reason to hate Spider-Man because Eddie blamed Spidey for the death of his wife. Granted it was fridging a female character and Spidey just letting Venom roam free was OOC but still. Then that was utterly ignored.


Personally though I do have an idea to revitalise Brock as Venom AND to even mould him into a character who’s more similar to his counterparts in cartoons, films and other universes. When I obviously get personally invited to write for ASM you shall all behold my genius.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Cheesedique » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:11 pm

Big Al wrote:
Cheesedique wrote:I really liked the Marvel Knights stuff, and it gave two villains, Venom and Mac Gargan the Scorpion, a new lease on life since Marvel hadn't done much with either of them in ages.

Gargan as Venom was exciting to me, at as written by Millar and Ellis.

Leave it to Slott to make both Scorpion and Venom crushingly boring again, almost in the span of 6 issues, during Big Time.


I liked Gargan Venom in theory, but his potential was squandered since he rarely if ever showed up as a Spider-Man villain and was just an attack dog for Norman. I prefer though for Gargan to be Scorpion and Venom to be Venom because we literally lose one good villain by combining two of them together.


In fairness Remender was the guy mainly responsible for Flash as Venom and it wasn’t a bad idea. But again it’s just an idea I don’t like. Venom as a villain works, Flash as a supporting figure works. Why take away a villain (which are hot commodities) and a great supporting character by combining them. Worse, by combining them and spinning them off. For Flash and maybe even Venom’s characters it was great. For Spider-Man though it took away two great characters and you never serve the spin-offs before you serve the parent series.


Personally I think Gargan is fine as Scorpion and I’ve been fed up with Venom NOT being a Spider-Man character/villain for years now. They’ve had their fun. At worst give the symbiote to a new character so he can be a villain, or at best actually revitalise Eddie Brock so he can viably be Venom again. Which is weirdly something which Mackie and Byrne absolutely NAILED during their otherwise shitty run. For all the crap of that era, Venom’s portrayal was actually really great. They even gave him a more plausible reason to hate Spider-Man because Eddie blamed Spidey for the death of his wife. Granted it was fridging a female character and Spidey just letting Venom roam free was OOC but still. Then that was utterly ignored.


Personally though I do have an idea to revitalise Brock as Venom AND to even mould him into a character who’s more similar to his counterparts in cartoons, films and other universes. When I obviously get personally invited to write for ASM you shall all behold my genius.


I don't know how OOC it was for Peter to let Venom roam free, since he'd been doing it since late in Michelinie's run.

I don't mind Gargan staying as Scorpion and somebody as Venom either. I just think it was really well done to have them merged. People talk a lot of crap about Millar, but it seemed like he got the characters down better than a lot of the other writers over the last few years.

And yeah, I have my own ideas for Venom. Either way, he should definitely be a villain to Spider-man, mainly, again. Perhaps someone new in the suit would offer up some new story possibilities for him as a bad guy.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Big Al » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Cheesedique wrote:
Big Al wrote:
Cheesedique wrote:I really liked the Marvel Knights stuff, and it gave two villains, Venom and Mac Gargan the Scorpion, a new lease on life since Marvel hadn't done much with either of them in ages.

Gargan as Venom was exciting to me, at as written by Millar and Ellis.

Leave it to Slott to make both Scorpion and Venom crushingly boring again, almost in the span of 6 issues, during Big Time.


I liked Gargan Venom in theory, but his potential was squandered since he rarely if ever showed up as a Spider-Man villain and was just an attack dog for Norman. I prefer though for Gargan to be Scorpion and Venom to be Venom because we literally lose one good villain by combining two of them together.


In fairness Remender was the guy mainly responsible for Flash as Venom and it wasn’t a bad idea. But again it’s just an idea I don’t like. Venom as a villain works, Flash as a supporting figure works. Why take away a villain (which are hot commodities) and a great supporting character by combining them. Worse, by combining them and spinning them off. For Flash and maybe even Venom’s characters it was great. For Spider-Man though it took away two great characters and you never serve the spin-offs before you serve the parent series.


Personally I think Gargan is fine as Scorpion and I’ve been fed up with Venom NOT being a Spider-Man character/villain for years now. They’ve had their fun. At worst give the symbiote to a new character so he can be a villain, or at best actually revitalise Eddie Brock so he can viably be Venom again. Which is weirdly something which Mackie and Byrne absolutely NAILED during their otherwise shitty run. For all the crap of that era, Venom’s portrayal was actually really great. They even gave him a more plausible reason to hate Spider-Man because Eddie blamed Spidey for the death of his wife. Granted it was fridging a female character and Spidey just letting Venom roam free was OOC but still. Then that was utterly ignored.


Personally though I do have an idea to revitalise Brock as Venom AND to even mould him into a character who’s more similar to his counterparts in cartoons, films and other universes. When I obviously get personally invited to write for ASM you shall all behold my genius.


I don't know how OOC it was for Peter to let Venom roam free, since he'd been doing it since late in Michelinie's run.

I don't mind Gargan staying as Scorpion and somebody as Venom either. I just think it was really well done to have them merged. People talk a lot of crap about Millar, but it seemed like he got the characters down better than a lot of the other writers over the last few years.

And yeah, I have my own ideas for Venom. Either way, he should definitely be a villain to Spider-man, mainly, again. Perhaps someone new in the suit would offer up some new story possibilities for him as a bad guy.


Yes but in the Michelinie run he felt really conflicted about it, it was played off as him doing something temporary to fight another day, he went after Venom shortly thereafter and it had appeared that Venom had seemingly reformed. Now it was editorially mandated for Venom to get a spin-off so Spidey HAD to act that way, but in contrast in Mackie/Larsen’s issue it was literally a case of Venom being super duper villainous and Spidey just giving him a free pass to be with his wife. Granted Spidey was grieving his own wife at the time but still.

I think it wasn’t a bad idea but not the idea which maximises both of their potential. I’d rather have Venom and Scorpion in the villain pool as opposed to a combined version of them. More toys to play with. Oh, Millar by and large did fantastically with his MK series.

Personally, because of media adaptations I think Brock is sort of engrained as Venom. But people dismiss him because his origin was poorly explained although it does make sense when you think about it. But then the Lethal Protector stuff derailed him. He can be salvaged though, he just needs to go to villain rehab and have a 90s detox (much like the Jackal).
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Cheesedique » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:56 pm

Ha, ^ "villain rehab and a 90's detox", that's a good way to put it.

I know they've had a bit of success with Flash-Venom, but to me, they only go astray with Venom when they try to shoehorn him into some anti-hero role. Let him be a bad guy.

I personally had no problem with Brock as Venom's origins, or the fact that he was revealed to have been someone we'd never seen before. He was crazy, unhinged and out of touch with reality, like a celebrity stalker. And flush with power from the symbiote. It was fresh at the time (ASM #300 is my favorite comic of all time), but a modern take on Venom would probably take a bit of retooling. I think people took Brock's origin too literally or at face value. He was a disturbed individual.

Spidey's rogues gallery is currently really empty without Venom, IMHO.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Big Al » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:11 pm

Cheesedique wrote:Ha, ^ "villain rehab and a 90's detox", that's a good way to put it.

I know they've had a bit of success with Flash-Venom, but to me, they only go astray with Venom when they try to shoehorn him into some anti-hero role. Let him be a bad guy.

I personally had no problem with Brock as Venom's origins, or the fact that he was revealed to have been someone we'd never seen before. He was crazy, unhinged and out of touch with reality, like a celebrity stalker. And flush with power from the symbiote. It was fresh at the time (ASM #300 is my favorite comic of all time), but a modern take on Venom would probably take a bit of retooling. I think people took Brock's origin too literally or at face value. He was a disturbed individual.

Spidey's rogues gallery is currently really empty without Venom, IMHO.


I think in fairness though Flash as Venom is a completely different concept which works better than Brock. Brock was built from the start as a bad guy. He doesn't work as an anti-hero/hero. Flash does. They just both happen to be Venom. It's like Norman's Green Goblin compared to Phil Urich's. Same identity and abilities different concept entirely.

And both are good concepts but the thing is great hero concepts are frankly a dime a dozen. Great villains are gold dust. And villains are essential to the superhero narrative so removing good ones (particularly from one of your major hero's rogue's gallery) is creatively reductive in many ways. And on top of that...he is Spider-Man. That guy is Flash Thompson/Venom. Spidey is the star and the core title, Marvel's mascot even. You don't undermine Spider-Man for the sake of a spin-off character EVER! You serve him first and foremost.

That is exactly how I see the character (and it's lent further credit due to how many OTHER stalkers showed up under Michelinie), I just don't think he was ever explained as that very well. People look at him and found him bad because his motivation made no sense. But that was the point. He was a hypocrite (remember he needlessly murdered and innocent man then was sad about it for five minutes before forgetting him) and someone who (in contrast to Spidey) was incapable of accepting personal responsibility for his actions, rewriting history to suit him. He couldn't accept it was HIS fault he got fired so he transferred the blame onto Spider-Man as a scapegoat since he was involved (also because being a religious guy who respects authority he probably didn't blame poor misguided Stan Carter).

And really given how the Bugle has dragged Spidey through the mud and built him up as a menace (plus the anonymity of his mask making him wonderfully dehumanised and easy to project onto) it makes sense Brock might choose Spidey as the focus of his anger. He's like those people who think they hear coded messages in music made by people they've never met and stalk them thereafter. And realistically Spider-Man WOULD have enemies he didn't even know about. Most celebrities who are attacked probably have no idea who their attackers are or how they are connected.

I think in adaptations they changed Brock to make him more easily understandable in his motivations, which for cartoons or films make a lot of sense.

Dude currently Venom is a space cadet, Doc Ock is dead or a hero, Green Goblin is who knows where depowered, Hobgoblin is maybe gonna join the Avengers, and God knows where the Jackal is. Basically right now Black Cat is THE Spider-Man villain.

The Hell!
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Cheesedique » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:54 pm

Big Al wrote:
Cheesedique wrote:Ha, ^ "villain rehab and a 90's detox", that's a good way to put it.

I know they've had a bit of success with Flash-Venom, but to me, they only go astray with Venom when they try to shoehorn him into some anti-hero role. Let him be a bad guy.

I personally had no problem with Brock as Venom's origins, or the fact that he was revealed to have been someone we'd never seen before. He was crazy, unhinged and out of touch with reality, like a celebrity stalker. And flush with power from the symbiote. It was fresh at the time (ASM #300 is my favorite comic of all time), but a modern take on Venom would probably take a bit of retooling. I think people took Brock's origin too literally or at face value. He was a disturbed individual.

Spidey's rogues gallery is currently really empty without Venom, IMHO.


I think in fairness though Flash as Venom is a completely different concept which works better than Brock. Brock was built from the start as a bad guy. He doesn't work as an anti-hero/hero. Flash does. They just both happen to be Venom. It's like Norman's Green Goblin compared to Phil Urich's. Same identity and abilities different concept entirely.

And both are good concepts but the thing is great hero concepts are frankly a dime a dozen. Great villains are gold dust. And villains are essential to the superhero narrative so removing good ones (particularly from one of your major hero's rogue's gallery) is creatively reductive in many ways. And on top of that...he is Spider-Man. That guy is Flash Thompson/Venom. Spidey is the star and the core title, Marvel's mascot even. You don't undermine Spider-Man for the sake of a spin-off character EVER! You serve him first and foremost.

That is exactly how I see the character (and it's lent further credit due to how many OTHER stalkers showed up under Michelinie), I just don't think he was ever explained as that very well. People look at him and found him bad because his motivation made no sense. But that was the point. He was a hypocrite (remember he needlessly murdered and innocent man then was sad about it for five minutes before forgetting him) and someone who (in contrast to Spidey) was incapable of accepting personal responsibility for his actions, rewriting history to suit him. He couldn't accept it was HIS fault he got fired so he transferred the blame onto Spider-Man as a scapegoat since he was involved (also because being a religious guy who respects authority he probably didn't blame poor misguided Stan Carter).

And really given how the Bugle has dragged Spidey through the mud and built him up as a menace (plus the anonymity of his mask making him wonderfully dehumanised and easy to project onto) it makes sense Brock might choose Spidey as the focus of his anger. He's like those people who think they hear coded messages in music made by people they've never met and stalk them thereafter. And realistically Spider-Man WOULD have enemies he didn't even know about. Most celebrities who are attacked probably have no idea who their attackers are or how they are connected.

I think in adaptations they changed Brock to make him more easily understandable in his motivations, which for cartoons or films make a lot of sense.

Dude currently Venom is a space cadet, Doc Ock is dead or a hero, Green Goblin is who knows where depowered, Hobgoblin is maybe gonna join the Avengers, and God knows where the Jackal is. Basically right now Black Cat is THE Spider-Man villain.

The Hell!


[smilie=spidey_thumbs.gif] Really well said, and I realized as I was typing about Michelinie that he did have a lot of stalker characters during his run in rapid succession (Eddie Brock, Jonathan Ceasar and the security cop who ended up shooting Ceasar--Marvel must've thought this was a good model for a villain, though, as we got the stalker of MJ who had a telepathic link with Peter during that wonderful little Mackie / Bryne era story).

And yeah, Spidey's rogues gallery is in terrible disarray, and has been for years. While I doubt Hobgoblin joining Avengers amounted to anything (I can't get anyone to tell me because no one actually read Axis), don't forget that Mysterio has been out of play since Spider-Men (that is, trapped in the Ultimate universe), and no one seems to care to do much with Kraven in Spider-man since he's been back. Can't remember the last time we saw the likes of Sandman or Vulture. It's all Slott-created types like Clash (Crash?) or Morlun's extended family. And from what I've read about the Black Cat thing, they can't even keep her motivation straight.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Big Al » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:36 am

Cheesedique wrote:
Big Al wrote:
Cheesedique wrote:Ha, ^ "villain rehab and a 90's detox", that's a good way to put it.

I know they've had a bit of success with Flash-Venom, but to me, they only go astray with Venom when they try to shoehorn him into some anti-hero role. Let him be a bad guy.

I personally had no problem with Brock as Venom's origins, or the fact that he was revealed to have been someone we'd never seen before. He was crazy, unhinged and out of touch with reality, like a celebrity stalker. And flush with power from the symbiote. It was fresh at the time (ASM #300 is my favorite comic of all time), but a modern take on Venom would probably take a bit of retooling. I think people took Brock's origin too literally or at face value. He was a disturbed individual.

Spidey's rogues gallery is currently really empty without Venom, IMHO.


I think in fairness though Flash as Venom is a completely different concept which works better than Brock. Brock was built from the start as a bad guy. He doesn't work as an anti-hero/hero. Flash does. They just both happen to be Venom. It's like Norman's Green Goblin compared to Phil Urich's. Same identity and abilities different concept entirely.

And both are good concepts but the thing is great hero concepts are frankly a dime a dozen. Great villains are gold dust. And villains are essential to the superhero narrative so removing good ones (particularly from one of your major hero's rogue's gallery) is creatively reductive in many ways. And on top of that...he is Spider-Man. That guy is Flash Thompson/Venom. Spidey is the star and the core title, Marvel's mascot even. You don't undermine Spider-Man for the sake of a spin-off character EVER! You serve him first and foremost.

That is exactly how I see the character (and it's lent further credit due to how many OTHER stalkers showed up under Michelinie), I just don't think he was ever explained as that very well. People look at him and found him bad because his motivation made no sense. But that was the point. He was a hypocrite (remember he needlessly murdered and innocent man then was sad about it for five minutes before forgetting him) and someone who (in contrast to Spidey) was incapable of accepting personal responsibility for his actions, rewriting history to suit him. He couldn't accept it was HIS fault he got fired so he transferred the blame onto Spider-Man as a scapegoat since he was involved (also because being a religious guy who respects authority he probably didn't blame poor misguided Stan Carter).

And really given how the Bugle has dragged Spidey through the mud and built him up as a menace (plus the anonymity of his mask making him wonderfully dehumanised and easy to project onto) it makes sense Brock might choose Spidey as the focus of his anger. He's like those people who think they hear coded messages in music made by people they've never met and stalk them thereafter. And realistically Spider-Man WOULD have enemies he didn't even know about. Most celebrities who are attacked probably have no idea who their attackers are or how they are connected.

I think in adaptations they changed Brock to make him more easily understandable in his motivations, which for cartoons or films make a lot of sense.

Dude currently Venom is a space cadet, Doc Ock is dead or a hero, Green Goblin is who knows where depowered, Hobgoblin is maybe gonna join the Avengers, and God knows where the Jackal is. Basically right now Black Cat is THE Spider-Man villain.

The Hell!


[smilie=spidey_thumbs.gif] Really well said, and I realized as I was typing about Michelinie that he did have a lot of stalker characters during his run in rapid succession (Eddie Brock, Jonathan Ceasar and the security cop who ended up shooting Ceasar--Marvel must've thought this was a good model for a villain, though, as we got the stalker of MJ who had a telepathic link with Peter during that wonderful little Mackie / Bryne era story).

And yeah, Spidey's rogues gallery is in terrible disarray, and has been for years. While I doubt Hobgoblin joining Avengers amounted to anything (I can't get anyone to tell me because no one actually read Axis), don't forget that Mysterio has been out of play since Spider-Men (that is, trapped in the Ultimate universe), and no one seems to care to do much with Kraven in Spider-man since he's been back. Can't remember the last time we saw the likes of Sandman or Vulture. It's all Slott-created types like Clash (Crash?) or Morlun's extended family. And from what I've read about the Black Cat thing, they can't even keep her motivation straight.


I also forgot to mention how Eddie reflects/contrasts Spidey because he’s someone who honestly sees himself as a hero except his actions tell a different story. Also his ‘moral code’ is so warped and tenuous that he obviously places selfish desires before it. Like yeah he will protect the innocent, but if he can kill Spider-Man then any innocents in his way better move it or lose it. Which is all why legitimately turning him into an anti-hero/hero never made sense.

We don’t speak of the dreaded Mackie stalker...ever...Although oddly enough he is one of the best Venom writers of all time.

I will be reading XIS Hobgoblin eventually because my friend gave me the entire series free. God I forgot about Mysterio. Is he gonna die in Secret Wars now? And then back up again with Slott saying “C’MON GUYS he’s the master of illusion!!!!!!” Well Kraven should never have come back and sucked before he died anyway so I don’t mind that.

I think Vulture was in Superior and Sandman was last seen in Ends of the Earth but even more recently in the F4.

They can keep Felicia’s motivation straight, it’s just nonsensical. It amount to “Me am one kerazee woman scorned”
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Cheesedique » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:52 am

Big Al wrote:I also forgot to mention how Eddie reflects/contrasts Spidey because he’s someone who honestly sees himself as a hero except his actions tell a different story. Also his ‘moral code’ is so warped and tenuous that he obviously places selfish desires before it. Like yeah he will protect the innocent, but if he can kill Spider-Man then any innocents in his way better move it or lose it. Which is all why legitimately turning him into an anti-hero/hero never made sense.

We don’t speak of the dreaded Mackie stalker...ever...Although oddly enough he is one of the best Venom writers of all time.

I will be reading XIS Hobgoblin eventually because my friend gave me the entire series free. God I forgot about Mysterio. Is he gonna die in Secret Wars now? And then back up again with Slott saying “C’MON GUYS he’s the master of illusion!!!!!!” Well Kraven should never have come back and sucked before he died anyway so I don’t mind that.

I think Vulture was in Superior and Sandman was last seen in Ends of the Earth but even more recently in the F4.

They can keep Felicia’s motivation straight, it’s just nonsensical. It amount to “Me am one kerazee woman scorned”


Yeah, they have never really played up the dark mirror aspects of Peter and Brock properly. The parallels are certainly there though.

Mackie did alright with Venom, and the existing villains in general (Senator Ward excluded). His take on Mysterio during the ASM Vol. 2 Sinister Six story was rather darkly funny.

Do you mean the Hobgoblin AXIS limited series or the actual AXIS series itself or both? When you read the Hobgoblin one, come back and tell us what you thought. I really enjoyed it, and would love to see an ongoing with Kingsley.
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Big Al » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:02 pm

Cheesedique wrote:
Big Al wrote:I also forgot to mention how Eddie reflects/contrasts Spidey because he’s someone who honestly sees himself as a hero except his actions tell a different story. Also his ‘moral code’ is so warped and tenuous that he obviously places selfish desires before it. Like yeah he will protect the innocent, but if he can kill Spider-Man then any innocents in his way better move it or lose it. Which is all why legitimately turning him into an anti-hero/hero never made sense.

We don’t speak of the dreaded Mackie stalker...ever...Although oddly enough he is one of the best Venom writers of all time.

I will be reading XIS Hobgoblin eventually because my friend gave me the entire series free. God I forgot about Mysterio. Is he gonna die in Secret Wars now? And then back up again with Slott saying “C’MON GUYS he’s the master of illusion!!!!!!” Well Kraven should never have come back and sucked before he died anyway so I don’t mind that.

I think Vulture was in Superior and Sandman was last seen in Ends of the Earth but even more recently in the F4.

They can keep Felicia’s motivation straight, it’s just nonsensical. It amount to “Me am one kerazee woman scorned”


Yeah, they have never really played up the dark mirror aspects of Peter and Brock properly. The parallels are certainly there though.

Mackie did alright with Venom, and the existing villains in general (Senator Ward excluded). His take on Mysterio during the ASM Vol. 2 Sinister Six story was rather darkly funny.

Do you mean the Hobgoblin AXIS limited series or the actual AXIS series itself or both? When you read the Hobgoblin one, come back and tell us what you thought. I really enjoyed it, and would love to see an ongoing with Kingsley.



I was referring to the Hobgoblin mini.

I think media adaptations play up the dark mirror aspect of Venom better than most of the comics. Weirdly Bendis' take set all that up but never delivered. Brock was set up as a parallel to Peter but when he became Venom it was disasterous because there was no personality to him. He was just a raving monster.

I think Mackie worked best with Norman and gangster villains
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Re: Is the Spider-man comic currently "broken"?

Postby Spideyfan101 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:57 pm

The major problems I have with Spider-Man comics right now is that most writers make Peter act like an idiot constantly and not mature. When I was younger and when BND first started I liked a lot of the stories, but now I think a lot of those stories suck from reading them again. I also don't like that he needs help every fight or otherwise he would get his ass kicked, even after learning Way of the Spider...or does he even use it?
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